# Adding Ideal or Super to the Flow Hive **URL:** \ **Category:** When to add the Flow Super\ **Created:** [October 8, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941 "2017-10-08T01:35:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Emma\_Schofield](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/emma_schofield/32/14894_2.png) [@Emma\_Schofield](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Emma_Schofield)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/1 "2017-10-08T01:35:21Z")
My Flow Hive is located in Sydney. This is my first Spring and we are off to an incredible start. I have already harvested lots of Honey and 1 full frame of Honey and Comb from the Brood Box to give the girls some more room down there. 1 week ago there was lots of burr comb full of honey in the roof. I took it out and now the girls have rebuilt even more burr comb and filled it again with honey. I was wondering whether I should add another Flow Super, Ideal or Hybrid box or just continue to harvest frames as they are fully capped and hope that there is enough room for them. My bees are also bearding a lot which I know could be a sign of preparing to swarm but so far so good. Emma. ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/2 "2017-10-08T01:43:03Z")
Comb in the roof is a sign that they are feeling short of space. They are probably overheating too - hence the bearding. I like your idea of adding an ideal super or two. šŸ˜Š I would also harvest any capped Flow frames - you donā€™t need the whole Flow super to be capped, just harvest each frame as it gets fully capped. ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/3 "2017-10-08T01:59:55Z")
Hi Emma, Your bees probably will swarm at some point. You need to look into that to see what you should do to try to prevent it, if possible. Are you in a bee club, or do you have a mentor? Donā€™t do this on your own. cheers ---
**Author:** ![Webclan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/webclan/32/11252_2.png) [@Webclan](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Webclan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/4 "2017-10-08T02:07:28Z")
Hi Emma. I had the same happening late summer, lots of comb in the roof and bearding on my first hive. As a remedy I added an ideal box with foundationless frames. They had them built and filled in 2 weeks, no more big bearding or building under the roof. I also took out a couple of brood frames once in a while to boost my Nucs. This spring I added another brood box to maybe do a split later. All 8 foundationless frames were built and filled in 10 days! At the moment this hive is a breeding and honey making machine. I wonder if they still think of swarming with all the extra space. ---
**Author:** ![Webclan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/webclan/32/11252_2.png) [@Webclan](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Webclan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 8:56am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/6 "2017-10-08T08:56:39Z")
Hi Jeff. Yes, that would be a real big swarm. I will take a few frames for a Nuc out tomorrow and see how that goes. I really donā€™t want them to swarm. Planning to take the 2nd box with content off end November when I get a Kangaroo Island Ligurian queen. Heard Ligurian bees have a longer proboscis and can reach the nectar where others canā€™t. Iā€™d like to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Rmcpb](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/rmcpb/32/3147_2.png) [@Rmcpb](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Rmcpb)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 9:32am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/7 "2017-10-08T09:32:35Z")
Keep opening the brood nest and robbing the honey frames is a good way to ā€œpreventā€ swarming. Most times it works but sometimes it dosenā€™t but it is our best management strayegy? Cheers Rob. ---
**Author:** ![Emma\_Schofield](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/emma_schofield/32/14894_2.png) [@Emma\_Schofield](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Emma_Schofield)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/9 "2017-10-08T22:30:34Z")
Thanks for the advice Dawn. I added another conventional Langstrof box yesterday and harvested another frame of capped honey from the Flow frames. Things are looking better in terms of the bearding already so fingers crossed they donā€™t swarm. Emma. ---
**Author:** ![Emma\_Schofield](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/emma_schofield/32/14894_2.png) [@Emma\_Schofield](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Emma_Schofield)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/10 "2017-10-08T22:31:30Z")
Thanks ! Added another super and harvested more honey. Fingers crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Webclan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/webclan/32/11252_2.png) [@Webclan](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Webclan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/11 "2017-10-09T09:27:46Z")
Hi Jeff. Yes, I feel to follow your advice on this one. That double brood box is very strong and itā€™s been almost 4 weeks that I looked in. No bearding yet, but they bring in huge amounts of nectar and pollen, so they must be feeding plenty of babies. Will take a nuc out tomorrow. Last time I checked they hadnā€™t even built play cups. Itā€™s so amazing that they built all 8 foundationless frames out so perfectly straight, even though I had 2 and 3 empty frames next to each other in configuration. Amazing, because I hear advice constantly that they will build crazy. Not these Italians. Maybe by now I got this queen well trained. My carnie hives did build their empty frames a bit crazy, just bulging honey into the space of the next frame. I didnā€™t do much shaving to not upset them too much in one go, but next time I looked they worked out to build both adjacent frames down straight. As a colony, they much seem to work out by themselves how to make most efficient use of space. Canā€™t wait to see what Iā€™ll find in that double brood box tomorrow. Got my nuc boxes ready. ---
**Author:** ![Webclan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/webclan/32/11252_2.png) [@Webclan](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Webclan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/13 "2017-10-09T11:37:01Z")
One could say, adding an ideal or deep to our recommended one brood/one flow super configuration in our climate will be beneficial only under certain circumstances and only for a certain time. There canā€™t be general advice. New or not, as beekeepers we just have to watch and learn and act, and take the outcome as a lesson. This forum became such a great resource for all kinds of situations in all kinds of regions, where we share our experiences and others can learn, from failures and successes. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![sweetnature](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@sweetnature](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/sweetnature)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/14 "2017-10-09T22:29:23Z")
Saw another post using this term. What is an IDEAL? ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/15 "2017-10-09T22:45:50Z")
> [@sweetnature](#): > > What is an IDEAL? It is an Australian Langstroth-sized box in width and length, but the depth is a little different from the US measurements. Somewhere between a shallow and medium depth box, or about half of a standard Langstroth deep, if I remember it right. šŸ˜Š Ah, here is a web site with measurements: [http://johnlguilfoyle.com.au/australian%20hive%20sizes.htm](http://johnlguilfoyle.com.au/australian%20hive%20sizes.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Dan2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dan2/32/10463_2.png) [@Dan2](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dan2)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/16 "2017-10-11T09:16:45Z")
Apparently the Ideal is (or was) also known as a Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![Trevor1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@Trevor1](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Trevor1)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/17 "2020-07-21T03:53:31Z")
Dear Flowhive Forum: Can anyone please advise my best course of action re the following: I have 2 brilliant non-Langstrof-sized Flowhives. Each hive has a brood box with a 6-frame super box on top - they work well. I want to stay with the Flowhive system BUT convert all my Flowhive boxes to match Australian Langstrof dimensions. What is the most efficient cost effective way of doing this? Kind regards Trevor ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/18 "2021-01-27T22:38:15Z")
The flow hive honey supers already match Australian Langstroth dimensions. They might vary by about 6mil., not enough to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Trevor1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@Trevor1](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Trevor1)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 8:55am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/19 "2021-01-28T08:55:21Z")
Many thanks Jeff. Thatā€™s useful to know. ---
**Author:** ![liyi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/liyi/32/29609_2.png) [@liyi](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/liyi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/20 "2023-10-13T20:49:43Z")
Hi @Dawn_SD, my hive swarmed this year but luckily I was able to catch it with the help of a local beek. He recommended that I get an ideal to give the bees more space. If placing Ideal above brood box and below Flow Super, should I place the QX above the Ideal box or below it? My super wasnā€™t full when they swarmed this year, so I feel like they needed more space without a QXā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 6:39am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/21 "2023-10-15T06:39:12Z")
Hello and welcome to the Flow forum! šŸ˜Š > [@liyi](#): > > If placing Ideal above brood box and below Flow Super, should I place the QX above the Ideal box or below it? The answer depends on whether you want a stronger hive or not. If you do, place it below the QX. If you just want more space for food stores, place it above. With your climate, you may want to consider taking the Flow super off over winter, to avoid propolis etc, unless you have a good nectar flow year round. The ideal will give the hive good supplies for the winter period. One more thing, did you put any wax onto the Flow frames before you added the super? When you inspect, if you keep any burr comb that needs to be removed, you can smear it onto the plastic frames. That makes the super smell more like the hive, and will encourage the bees to use it, rather than swarming because of a perceived lack of suitable space. šŸ˜‰ My other suggestion is to do hive inspections every week or two from early spring onwards. That way you can detect queen cells before the hive swarms, and do a split as a swarm prevention method. Even if you donā€™t want two hives, splits can be sold, or recombined with the original hive in the autumn. Please ask if you donā€™t understand what I have written. ---
**Author:** ![liyi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/liyi/32/29609_2.png) [@liyi](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/liyi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/22 "2023-10-21T00:54:00Z")
Thank you @Dawn_SD this is very helpful! Itā€™s been 3 weeks since my original hive swarmed. The new hive (caught swarm) is doing well with the old queen laying nicely. The original hive isnā€™t looking too good. It doesnā€™t look like the queen is laying. I spotted her last week (2 weeks after swarm) and I had expected her to have been mated by then. Today I didnā€™t see her, itā€™s now been 3 weeks since the swarm. I still have the flow super on and thereā€™s some capped honey up there. Thereā€™s some nectar & pollen in the brood box too but no capped brood. I can sense the anxiousness in this hive compared to the one with a laying queen. Also saw some queen cells that look like theyā€™ve hatched but I think they were from prior to the original swarm. Is there anything I should do or perhaps wait another week? Should I give them a frame of brood from the new hive? I donā€™t want to weaken that one as theyā€™re just starting out but I saw at least 2 frames half full of capped brood ( see pic attached)! Edit: I have just been reading on ā€œpolished cellsā€. I reckon I saw these shiny cells, I thought they had pollen in them. But they were definitely shiny and in the middle of the frames. Perhaps they are just getting things ready for the queen to lay. I feel like the best thing to do might be to wait. The population feels strong enough. šŸ¤ž ![PXL_20231021_003124576](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/3X/a/2/a2bfcd3fa68a56111a22cda83574e02e19f4a8f5.jpeg) Regards Li Yi ---
**Author:** ![SuperPuppet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/superpuppet/32/29627_2.png) [@SuperPuppet](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/SuperPuppet)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:43am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941/23 "2023-11-14T06:43:30Z")
How do you get comb in the roof when there is a cover on the super? Iā€™m speaking as a new beek & Flow hive 7 owner. ā€¦ which has said cover. Iā€™m guessing the hive owned by the OP does not? [Next page](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/adding-ideal-or-super-to-the-flow-hive/12941.md?page=2)