After the nuc frames are in the new hive

I guess it all depends on how you split the hive, both ways works for me. If I want to make new colonies, I take brood with bees & take the new colony somewhere else. If I want to strengthen a weaker colony, I’ll just take brood frames. It always works for me as long as the colony hasn’t already started to prepare to swarm.

The one time a colony did swarm after I did a split was when I put 2 empty frames together in the middle of brood. One side thought the colony was queenless & started building queen cells. After that, the whole colony decided to swarm. That was the last time I ever put 2 empty frames together in between brood. I’ll put them together on the sides, but not between brood.

The trick is to make sure the colony hasn’t already started to prepare to swarm.

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It’s NOT all that bad to use wax or plastic foundation in the brood box & it’s worth considering that nuc or packaged bees were probably raised in either.

It would be interesting to find out if any of the suppliers of nucs or packaged bees raise their bees in foundationless frames.

It is late summerI have placed a five frame neucleus in the brood box with three empty frames with foundation either side.
I have made a lid with a cutout hole to fit a 500ml jar for feeding.No flow frame box in situ.
Over three weeks the girls have consumed almost three litres of 50% granular sugar and water.
My question is : when should feeding cease and when should the floframe box be put in place ?

You need to do a hive inspection ASAP. How much space do they have?

Comb is being formed on two of the three empty frames.

OK, sorry, my husband interrupted my typing above to run some errands. If you still have frames with no drawn comb, personally I would keep feeding them. Unless you have very hot weather, you might consider switching to 2:1 sugar to water - more energy density to help with comb production.

What are their food stores like? Two frames of capped food, or less? Any pollen? How much brood coverage would you estimate on the central frames? It would be nice to see 30-50% brood or eggs on at least the middle 2-4 frames.

Otherwise it sounds like you are doing all the right things, and I would just keep on keeping on! :slightly_smiling:

The neuc of five frames has pollen, brood and honey.
The 3 frames added to the brood box just had foundation. since adding those empty frames to make a full box the bees have formed comb but nothing in them.
There is still plenty of eucalypt and other flowering tree about.
I would say the weather is hot about 30 to 34C.
There would be 30 to 50% brood in the middle 5 frames.

Assuming that those new frames are on the outside of the brood box, they should be filling with food (honey and at least some pollen). If not, and your bees are still taking syrup, I would keep feeding it. Others may have different opinions. :wink:

The rest of your report on the hive sounds good. If you are able to post photos of the frames, you will get a ton of opinions, otherwise, just carry on! :smile:

Thanks Dawn
I will go back to feeding.
The new comb in the outside frames have nothing in them

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That sound like a plan. One other thing I would like to mention, is that you and I are in areas of the world which are affected by drought. New beekeepers often don’t consider that. Why would it matter? Give your bees water, no problem!

Actually, it matters a lot. During dry spells, many flowering plants down-regulate their nectar production so that the whole plant doesn’t dehydrate and die. So less nectar means less food for the bees, but the plant lives. You can replace that with just giving the bees more water right? Well, not exactly, plants are not very good at producing concentrated nectar - bees are expert at concentrating it into honey. So less water for plants means a “dearth” (reduction/lack/scarcity) of nectar too, and bees are at risk of starving even when plants still flower.

I can intellectualize about all this for hours, but the real key is what is happening in YOUR hives. If you are feeding them, and all frames are not drawn, plus there is significant empty drawn comb at the outer edges of the brood box, either the hive is very young, or it needs more food. To my mind, it needs more food no matter what, hence my opinions above! :blush:

Thanks for your advice Dawn.
I have just been out and replaced the feeder lid and a fresh bottle of syrup.
We live on north east coast of NSW Australia. Subtropical.
Pretty high rainfall rural area, acres upon acres of netted blueberries bananas and mangos plus hothouse vegetables.
We have many murraya (mock 0range) trees about to bloom and I am looking forward to see what the bees do to it. The blooms are plentiful and the scent is awsome. I’ll keep you in the loop.

Gday Beestings
I am in exactly the same situation with my hive with a brand new Nuc of 5 frames. I fed them for a week and have now left them to fend for themselves.After reading this thread I think I might start feeding again especially as they havent drawn on the 3 foundation frames I put on the outside. I was thinking of maybe putting 1 frame between outside honey frame and brood to encourage them to draw. Any thoughts on that Dee?

Yes, that’s the way to do it.
How’s the brood situation? Keep an eye on the bees storing the syrup rather than using it to build comb. Feed a litre or two, wait a day or two after the feeder is empty then repeat.

Thanks for response.
they have a full frame of capped honey from the nuc originally .
I checked the other day and yes it seems that one frame has been filled with syrup I guess?
Do they wait for that to get the right moisture content then cap?
they are bringing in alot of pollen stilll, thats why I didnt feed them anymore. However they havent touched those 3 foundation frames . I am a newbie and was hoping to get them to draw those 3 frames before winter arrives.Hopefully that is the right course of action.
cheers
Dave

Probably syrup if they are freshly capped. Yes, they get the moisture down to 17-20% for most “nectar” - although for some plants, they will cap it at 23-25%. Those are usually the thixotropic (or sometimes early crystallizing) honeys like heather etc.

Pollen is great food for making brood, it is less good for making wax, although both are needed to some extent. If they don’t have really good honey/syrup stores, and you have undrawn frames, I would suggest feeding them more syrup, and you might want to consider 2:1 at this time of year (1kg of sugar in 500ml water, or 2lb in 1 pint water, depending on your local weights and measures).

You could also move the honey out one frame to the edge, and put an undrawn frame next to the rest of nucleus just inside it. Might help them to get the message… :wink:

Dawn

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thanks Dawn
I might give them another litre of 2:1
Also move the frames of honey outward and check in on them in a couple of weeks?
There is no downside to feeding them at this time of year is there? just one brood box.
Does it stop them foraging?
cheers
Dave

It can stop them from foraging, but if they haven’t drawn the comb, and you are getting late in the season, they need the food. The major disadvantage is that if you intend to harvest honey this season, you might get a lot of sugar syrup in it if the bees move it around. If you have no intention of harvesting, the only disadvantage is that syrup is not nectar - no pollen, vitamins and pH balance. Those things are minor, compared with having too little space on comb to thrive, to my mind, at least. If you had other hives, you could just donate a frame of honey and empty comb, as you don’t have that, you are sort of bribing the bees to do it anyway. In your first year with a colony, your main goal is to get it to survive, then thrive, and that is not a trivial task in some parts of the world. :blush:

Oh and yes, I would definitely check on them again in a week or two. If they have taken all of the syrup, refill it - they will usually stop when they don’t want any more.

I must ask then since I’ve been following this thread since I’m now getting a NUC too. If The NUC is going into the new hive in late May will there be any need to feed them at all or just keep an eye on the hive and if they aren’t seeming to harvest then feed? I am seeing that an easier placed NUC sounds like it needs feeding, but I’m guessing that late in the year it would be ok? We start to get wild flows blooming around that time.

thanks alot.
I moved 2 of the undrawn frames closest to the brood and moved the honey frames to the outside.
gave them a mixture of 2:1 and will see how they go. That is my goal, to get them to survive, and look at maybe some honey in the next spring.
I appreciate your help.
cheers
Dave

That is very hard to answer. I have always needed to feed splits or nuclei in a new hive with undrawn frames of foundation. But then San Diego is in a long-term drought, and the nectar flow is rarely prolific. I would definitely ask your local beekeepers and even your bee supplier what they think, but in the end, you are only going to know by doing inspections.

One plan could be:

  1. Transfer the nuc to the Flow brood box and add as many empty frames as you need to make 8 frames total in that box.
  2. Open the hive 3-6 days later and see whether they are building comb, and assess how much honey they have left on the nuc frames.
  3. If they are not building comb, and the honey they had is dwindling, you definitely need to feed them syrup. If the comb is being drawn, leave them another week and reassess.
  4. If you need to feed them, you may need to check the feeder more often than weekly, depending on the weather and the local nectar flow. As you are in Nebraska, you probably want to build up the equivalent of a double brood box in your first season, so I would add your first brood medium (I think you are going with mediums after the first deep?) once all of the frames have drawn comb, and 6-7 of the 8 are full of brood, pollen or syrup/nectar/honey. If you had to feed in 3. above, continue feeding until the medium is full. Depending on the nectar flow and temperatures at this point, you may or may not be able to add another medium. If you are in a warm August, you probably can. If you are in late September, and the nights are getting chilly, you probably shouldn’t.

So you can see the key is going to be inspecting. Not too often, but enough to make sure they don’t starve or conversely run out of space. It is all a balance. The first year for a new colony is often more work for the beekeeper than later years. Plus the first year for a new beekeeper is MUCH more work than any other year, because you are spending a lot of time learning as well as doing.

Hope that helps a bit. Sorry I can’t be definitive.

Dawn

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