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Convert UK national brood frame to langstroth in 1 minute

No need to apologize, if you can post a photo of your concern, it can make answers more accurate and faster. :wink: Otherwise we are trying to work out what you are worried about when we can’t see it. :blush:

Wishing you all the best. :sunny:

Basically I had to change horses in the middle of the stream. I thought I was getting deep frames that were going into to my flow hive deep box. The photo was what I got basically a box with a top and bottom board. I have to pull the bottom board off and so forth to have it fit my new flow hive. Not sure I want that as the foundation to my hive. So, I am waiting to see shipping to Hawaii for a new med cedar box per your idea and I am hoping that the langstroth cedar 8 frame med fits the flow hive. Then, if I have learned I will take the frames out of what you see and put them in the new box. Then later move that med brood box up and put my empty deep framed brood box on the bottom. I imagine at some point I will put the flow hive super on probably I would think prior to the addition of the second brood box. Then I think I would use this clean it up and make sure it is secure and create a second hive. It could take a month to get the new cedar box ready,

Scott.

Thank you for this. I am having EXACTLY this problem at the moment and I am due to have the bees deliver in the next few weeks. I have quite a senior guy brining the bees over and helping me install them in Godalming, Surrey. Im not sure how tech savvy he is so `I have printed your photos out to show him when he arrives. Hopefully we will be a bee to work through it together when he turns up but just wanted you to know that your image has made the task undoubtedly a thousand times easier. So THANK YOU !!!

Back when I had a DE hive (similar dimensions to a National) I built an adapter out of four 1 x 1 (3/4" x 3/4") boards about 2 feet long. The easiest way to describe it is to put two below to cover the gap and two on the the box above to cover the gap there and screw or nail them together where they cross. Then cut off the excess.

WARNING long post!

Scott - I have a similar problem. The only bees I could buy locally are on wired LN frames - 8 Cm shorter in width and .675cm shorter in depth than the Langstroth frames.

One suggestion today from a local was to make new lists to sit in the langstroth box and wire the current frames to those lists and then insert into the hive. I like the cable ties idea, looks easy - what do the bees think of it or don’t they care at all?

My question then is what happens in the 4cm gap on each side - crazy comb and sticking to the inside walls of the box? Should the top list have sides like a normal frame to stop this or would it be ok without?

Another suggestion has been to make an adaptor board between the two current hives (Langstroth new and the hive they came in Nacka LN)…

I would like to winter with two boxes having just found out that this is the most common here. So I’m thinking I’d like to get them into my Langstroth now, and then soon hope to add my second Langstroth (originally for the flow frames, as I won’t be using the flow frames this year) once they’ve grown a little more.

What do you think of my plan?

Thanks for reading :grin:

How did this go? Did the bees build a random comb in the gaps at all? Wonder how it will effect the removal of frames when inspecting.

Hi :wave:
It went fairly well, they did of course build in the gaps- but not so much and just on 3 frames. That said they unfortunately did not make it through Spring so I can’t say how it would have looked like once the flow started up again.

I am starting again soon and this time will do as MB suggested earlier using some pieces of wood to cover gaps between the two different size hive boxes with the Lang on top and wait for them to build out up into the Lang then remove the bottom box and be left with Lang only & correct frames.

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This is what I have done!

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Welcome to the Flow forum! That looks like quite a bit of work, but a very tidy result. The bees will likely fill the gaps with comb, and you have a nice sturdy frame to keep for several years. Thank you for sharing! :blush:

Hi Scott,
I’m trying to research how to convert BS national frames onto langstroth flow brood frames and your picture keeps popping up. Can I ask if you had to adjust where the langstroth side bar fits into the top bar to accommodate the length of the national top bar or did it just pop straight in there? I need to have the process as seamless as possible as my frames will be covered in bees coming out of the nuc so I want to have the langstroth frames the correct size to take the national.
I know that you posted this years ago but there is no information out there about doing this apart from your post.
Thanks so much, any advice would be great!
Merry

Hello Merry,

I’m not sure of your question, you can’t convert normal frames into flow frames. I converted national frames to Langstroth as you can see in the picture above. Please let me know if I have entirely missed you question, sorry.

Scott

Hi,
Did this work ? Did the bees fill the Side gaps with comb?

Hi Scott, how do you go onwards swapping out the converted brood frames to fully Langstroth frames so that in the end there are no more converted frames just the Langstroth ones?

How do you progress swapping out converted UK National/Langstroth brood frames to pure Langstroth frames as the brood increases?

There are multiple ways of getting the hybrid frames out:

  1. Add a second brood box on top, with All Langstroth frames, once the bees move up during winter. You can remove the brood box below off so that you can deal with the hybrid frames.

  2. Assume you just have one brood box, you start to put the Langstroth frames in the middle and slowly move the hybrid frames to the out side. When the bees down size during winter you can remove the frames they not occupying in Spring. I would suggest do it over time rather than in one year.

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Hi Paras,
thanks for your response. Very helpful. The only thing is when we tried to convert the national frames to the Langstroth frames we found the nationals too deep for using cable ties. They turned out to be the same depth as the Langstroth frames supplied with the Flow Hive. I am now left with the prospect of cabling them to a top bar which will leave a gap at either end of the frames. Will this be a problem as the bees will most likely draw freestyle comb on the ends of the frames? Will it create a mess? This will be 5 out of the 8 brood frames unless there is no brood in one of the current frames. Going to try moving them tonight if possible.
Thanks,
Rebecca

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Hi Rebecca does your frames look like this, this is picture that Scott posted originally.

Hi Scott,
What I meant was, did you need to alter the langstroth side bars to fit the national frame or is it wide enough for it to fit snugly in. I see no bottom bar but is removing the bottom the only adjustment you had to make to the langstroth?
sorry for confusion, shouldn’t have used the term “flow frame”, what I meant was brood frame.

One option is to cut the comb out of the frame, easier if they’re foundationless, impossible if they’re fully plastic. And suspend the comb in the langstroth frame with rubber bands. Basically what hive removers do. A bit messy but effective. The bees will connect the comb to the frame and chew through the rubber bands. IMG_9115_grande

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Ok that’s also interesting. We ended up attaching a piece of wood across the top of the frame to lengthen it and simply suspended it in the brood box. They have built very little comb onto it si far but have started to build from the comb guides on the new frames. Saw my first eggs yesterday which was awesome!
Rebecca