I wouldn’t recommend that either, however I live in a sub-tropical zone. If you were to follow @Michael_Bush’s recommendation, you would shave a little bit off each frame so as to fit a ninth frame in.
Don’t know where in the world you are, but here in the states we are heading into spring and now is actually late to be ordering nucs. One might not get them for another month or so, depending on location, but now is when you place your order. Temps look bad right now because the east is just coming out of a hellacious late season storm.
Long Island Averages;
f50 35 March c10 2
f61 45 April c16 7
f71 54 May c22 12
As you can see the temps ramp up quickly this time of year.
It’s not the weather that’s the problem, it’s the mindset…
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Well, I suggested a justified concern he might have… “If he is worried that it only has 8 frames and they won’t have enough food, he has a good point.” So I wasn’t gratuitously bashing him, honest! 
And I did read your reasoning in your post, but as @sara and @Cowgirl have pointed out, this is actually late in the the US to be ordering a nucleus. I had to order mine in October last year. I will get it earlier (this weekend, I hope) than most as our climate in SoCal is mild and my supplier chases the local almond pollination requests, so his hives are well-fed.
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It’s hard to keep track of where and when we are all!
Sara
West Coast USA
Spring )’(
I still don’t buy it. Every time I have read one of these posts or spoken to Flow owners about this apparent issue with the ‘old guard’ it has either been a misinterpretation on the side of the Flow owner because of a lack of understanding they refuse to admit, or a the Flow owner interpreting disagreement as a personal attack.
I just don’t see a beekeeper of 45 years complaining about the frame spacing as a cause of overwintering failure, it just doesn’t add up, and I’m sure there is more to the story.
Everyone seems quick to play the victim and attack someone who has no voice on here except through what a single Flow owner has written.
The attitude by new owners that because they have bought a Flow hive they’re apparently immediately a ‘progressive beekeeper’, and anyone else is ‘behind the times’ is an absurd assertion.
The Flow is just a Langstroth as people in this thread have mentioned. If you fail to take advice from ‘old beekeepers’ who have a great deal of practical experience with Langstroth, you’re going to make your life more difficult than necessary, and it’s really your loss.
I am yet to see a better example of the Dunning-Kruger effect than that displayed by new, inexperienced beekeepers (myself included).
Strongly agree with @Semaphore in getting him on here to discuss his thoughts/position.
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I know of one, but the NSA might try to get me arrested if I pointed a finger at the White House… 
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Interesting take. While there seems to be a fair bit of logic driven evaluation here about what is going on here, by a number of beekeepers who are not beginners in any way, you seem determined to argue that when the “old beek” said that he didn’t like flowhives, and their spacing, that he must have meant something else.
I find it much easier to take him at his (once removed) word, than to search for a logical reason about seasons and weather that clearly (to those who live in this hemisphere) doesn’t apply. But to each his own.
To the OP; I’d take my hive and move on. There are other beeks in the world and in your area. No sense beating your head against an old wall ; -)
Spring is just around the corner and you don’t want to miss a good start at the begining of the season. New hives established early in spring will be better fit to face the winter come the end of fall!
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It is much easier to take him ‘on his word’, but this is the Internet… it’s in the reader’s best interest to not take every statement as fact.
If I hadn’t seen first hand some of the attitudes of Flow owners when purchasing nucs/queens/packages, I probably wouldn’t blink at the OPs comment.
Here’s an anecdote.
A good friend was accused of being ‘anti Flow’ because he refused to supply a queen to a Flow owner.
Damn old beekeepers, they don’t know what they’re talking about! They are all stuck in their ways and hate Flow!
That Flow owner was convinced they were going to start their hive with a queen and her escorts and wouldn’t take any advice to the contrary.
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I am sure that a large amount of confusion is simple miscommunication, but I thought I’d share my experiences about a year ago before I first got the flow hive.
It was spring time in Perth. I had read a couple of books, been on this forum and was excited when the Marri flowering happened, so decided to buy a brood box to act as a lure hive to try and catch a swarm before my flow arrived (first orders took a while…).
I went into a beekeeping supplies shop in Perth and chatted to a lovely lady about my plans. She sold me a bottom board with box attached, lid & frames and advised me that I should only put in some frames to leave a gap for the swarm to fit in.
A few days later the flow hive arrived :), so I took back the box to swap it out for a loose bottom board and box, as that was what was with the flow hive & would give me more versatility to mix everything up. This time I met the male owner of the shop and I am going to give him the benefit of the doubly that he was having a bad day!
The conversation deteriorated rather quickly when I tried to ask him if he sold screen bottom boards. He said all my bees will die with a SBB. If I were having this conversation one year on (and he wasn’t so aggressive and shouty), I would have probably tried to explainthat indeed there is the core flute that we can slide in to cover the bottom. So whilst my bees have not died with a SBB, I essentially run it like a solid bottom board anyway so maybe he wasn’t totally wrong!
He then said not using wax foundation was “stupid” and would fail. I know now that this is also not a cut and dry issue, and we indeed do use mostly wax foundation.
Then comes the bit I have the problem with. Trying to get the horrible conversation back on track I tried to run through my swarm catching plan with him. When I mentioned only putting half the frames to leave a gap for the swarm to measure out, He said, and I quote “what idiot told you to do that, that is a stupid idea”. At this point I didn’t tell him that that was his wife, nor did I try and argue that she was indeed absolutely correct, based on everything I know now.
I decided to give up on trying to talk to this man and left.
I think that understanding and explanation are the key on both sides. Very often there are many ways to go about doing aspects of beekeeping, but sometimes some things do not work in a local climate (such as trying to establish a Nuc in 2•C). My beekeeper at that time was not in the mood to have a discussion, or explain any of his reasonings, even though I believe I asked for explanations respectfully and did not disagree with his rantings at all.
That said, the beekeeper in question in this thread is giving his time to mentor others so I’m guessing likes to explain how he goes about his work. I would simply politely ask for an explanation at to why he won’t sell the Nuc. At @RBK says, it may simply be the wrong time of the year. It may be the size of the box (8 frame seem very common here in Perth so wouldn’t cause a stir here). Another option would be to simply ask him what he wants you to do to set up the Nuc and then see if he would be happy with multiple 8 frames to make up the space.
My gut says it is a miscommunication issue, rather than a grumpy old Beek issue. Indeed my grumpy old beek is now selling boxes for flow hives, so may have changed his attitude to flow once he actually saw it. Either that or he saw a good commercial opportunity - i won’t go back to ask 
Sorry for the ramblings,
Julia
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I love this thread, especially when someone after doing a one day introduction to beekeeping starts criticizing experienced beekeepers.
Good luck to people with that kind of attitude in finding a mentor. They will find out that there is more to beekeeping than turning a lever & watching the honey flow.
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Yes I’m inclined to agree there is more to this ‘grumpy old beek’ episode. Keeping in mind we’ve not had a reply from the OP.
Like most I’ve not mentioned Flow when purchasing gear due to the initial doubt from the experienced.
May I ask, @Jingles, the initials of this company you had discussions with for future reference and needling?
My gripe is the ol’ ‘you need to copy the commercial systems to be successful’ line. Bull dust… You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
We are all open to ideas and thoughts and have the benefit of not being set in our ways which is what makes this forum so different from all others.
The main concern I have gathered from reading many forum threads and YouTube clips is that Flow owners, being new, won’t work the bees as required and learn the ins and outs needed to care for bees. In some cases as we have seen on this forum this does occur however they are quickly and politely pointed in the right direction. The majority do the studies, join the clubs and ask the questions and in my opinion and from what I’ve seen are more conscientious than beginner traditional hive keepers. In fact I’ve shared time with traditional beeks and actually know more and have a better understanding of our little friends than they do due to my want of better knowledge. I dare say I’m not alone also… The record numbers at the beek society here is testament to that.
I must, however, put in a disclaimer and say that not all Flow owners are on this forum so am only going by what I’m seeing here and I’d imagine it’s probably only a small percentage of Flow owners on this forum.
And this jingles, is what you call a rant…
Are you sure the advice you were given about removing frames wasn’t given in the context of installing a nuc? not a swarm? because it makes absolutely perfect sense in that context.
It should also be noted that you were returning beekeeping equipment because you changed your mind. The person selling this equipment is taking on a huge risk taking it back because they don’t know if there is disease in your apiary or that the hive box hasn’t been in contact with diseased material.
You’ll find that a lot of the perceived Flow angst is more about attitude than hive type.
I love when people ask for ‘nucks’ and when you ask if they need a hand they’d rather try and (poorly) bluff you about their extensive experience than admit they may need some assistance getting set up.
Definitely about catching a swarm, but I guess he could have misunderstood me - I do have quite a strong northern English accent
I had no bees at the time of this so I don’t think he was grumpy about returning equipment - and I swapped for a smoker and bits and bobs so I didn’t get a refund.
I just think he was having a bad day, or maybe I was the last in line of a lot of newbies and he was fed up with what he perceived were stupid questions and stupid practices so I got the brunt of his anger.
I’m sure this beekeeper is a wealth of knowledge , but on that day he was not in the mood to share. There are grumpy people in all walks of life and I just smile and walk away…
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I love this forum. It’s so lively.
It sounds like #Jypsee you gave us two reasons for the experienced beekeeper ‘to refuse’ to sell. Firstly, because you have a new hive - #Jypsee, Have you prepared the boxes and got a place for them? And did your supplier/experienced beek know that the boxes were ready?
'Refuse 'is a strong word. Did he actually say ‘no not ever’ or did he say ‘not right now’ or ‘i can’t supply right now’ or ‘join the queue’? An experienced beekeeper may have a waitlist of nucs and ‘refusal’ will often offend. As it has in your case.
The second reason given for the refusal is the ‘spacing’. It’s had to believe that by now any beekeeper is unaware of the flow system. Michael Bush described it as the ’ biggest thing in beekeeping for 100 years, of course I want one’ . (Michael i heard you say that at a forum in Byron Bay 18 mths ago. Hope you fon’t mind me quoting you here.). The spacing reason is a no-brainer. However flowhive is an expensive labour saving investment AUD$1000 set up compared with AUD120 (looking at set up of the hive costs only not the harvest) There might be a little angst from the establishment beeks at cashed up newbees demanding time and resources, perhaps ahead of existing clients.
If you think the experienced beekeeper who wouldn’t supply the nuc is rude, stuck in the past or you can’t get along, go find another that you get along with:sun_with_face:
.
Communication is at least a two way street. Which ever way you decide to proceed you could give us a little more detail about what happened. Be-eCool:sunflower:
.
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He said to me these exact words
I refuse to sell my NUCS to anyone that has that ridiculous Flow Hive because it is not designed to keep the bees alive during the winter because you have to remove the super and the one brood box will not allow them to live to the next season.
I was wondering two things. If I place a second Brood box on top of the one that comes with the Flow Hive and then place a medium regular super under the Flow super and use the Queen excluder under the regular super and extract from the Flow Super and then remove the Flow super for winter along with the queen excluder and wrap the Hive in roofing paper and get a flat roof with overhangs and a moisture gatherer would that be the perfect setup for my colony to survive the harsh NY winters? Does Flow have a winter wrap and a moisture protector and what is the best way to make it so the roof doesn’t fly off in high winds during the summer months?
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So just tell him that you are going to use common sense and have 2 brood boxes, or however many he thinks you need. 
That should work just fine.
I haven’t seen one, but Bee Thinking has a nice “quilt box” for insulation and moisture absorption;
https://www.beethinking.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/langstroth-quilt-box
Make sure you get the 8-frame size if you are using it on a Flow hive.
A ratcheting hive strap works well for holding the roof on, or you can use 2-3" gate safety latches, like this:
Or both!
Yep, that guy is clearly a pig headed antique.
To be so determined to not like something that he ignores something as simple and obvious as “D’oh, add another brood box?” is just beyond understanding. Haters gotta hate…
Your plan for the second brood, and the medium sound fine.
Not sure you need a new flat top roof if you have sealed the peaked roof that came with your Flow. The eaves on it are pretty fair. Make sure it is tight however. Some folks have lined it with aluminum or copper sheeting, others have just caulked it well, because they can leak a bit.
The quilt box is an excellent suggestion as well. And the are plenty of posts and videos on DIY wraps for cold weather bee keeping ; -)
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Hi, Admin note here; If there are some missing posts in this thread it’s because Randy was a bit mixed up with 2 accounts and we are moving him over to one ; -)
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