G'day - Fred from Perth

Hi mate, the thread link you have there, in my understanding, is for wintering only. The mat on the brood isn’t required when supering during a flow, it may even be detrimental. The bees may see the super as being outside their hive with a mat on the brood box(bb) which may make the colony move the stores into the bb causing the bb to become honey bound.
Here in the West the mat is purely for heat retension and to cover the frames during inspections.
Burr comb on the bottom of the frames is inevitable, it also improves access to the super.
Yes, we are lucky here as regular inspections aren’t as regular as other parts of the world due to our near pristine bee environment.

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I think you have read Rodderick’s reply correctly but I don’t agree with him on this issue completely, but I can also see where he is coming from.
A hive mat covering the brood frames(sitting on the top of the brood frames) will help to keep the brood warm in a cold climate. But it also works as a barrier and the bees will work the area below the mat longer till they will eventually build comb above it in the roof.
My thought for your climate and a strong healthy hive there is no need for a mat on the brood frames for retaining heat unless it is a brood box only hive that is low in numbers of bees and the next step up from a nuc. I use a mat not for retaining heat in the brood but as a deterrent against the bees building comb above the super, but they will if they have too.
I try to do my hive inspections every 2 weeks except for 6 weeks over my ‘Winter’ and use my hive tool to remove bur comb off the QX and between the QX and the tops of the brood frames but if I am a week late sometimes I will switch a clean QX and take one home that is heavy with wax to clean up at home with a heat gun (I use metal QX’s) purely to make the best of my time at my apiary. A puff of smoke on top of the brood frames and the bees will clear the area for you to use your hive tool to scrape off the bur comb.
Cheers

Finally some activity sighted from the new split in the late afternoon. I reorientated my hive 90 degrees to change the entrance direction and quickly inspected the bottom board. I found 2 wax moth larvae :worried:

It’s forecast for 29 degrees C tomorrow and it’s been 1 week since my attempted spilt. I suspect the new split is under a bit of stress and hasn’t had the best start.

I plan to inspect frame by frame tomorrow and take photos. If I don’t find new queen cell or healthy bee numbers, is it safe to recombine back with the parent hive given that I’ve found moth larvae? Am I overreacting?

The parent looks strong. But I’ll likely look into that one and look for the queen or signs of a laying queen. Bees don’t seem too agitated.

If it was the case that I failed to give my split eggs, should I exchange frames if my parent give is queenright?

Trying to get a game plan together for tomorrow.

Cheers,
Fred
Sting Count: 3

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Is it worth swapping the hives around to encourage/trick foraging bees to return into the new split?

I’d focus on one strategy at a time, starting with your inspection for eggs, young larvae and possibly a charged queen cell. Be ready to add another frame of brood and nurse bees from your parent hive to give it a boost if you see signs of trouble like no eggs or young enough larvae, a lot of moths and their larvae, or other pest incursion. Pests like moths and SHB are going to be present in almost any hive, the real problem is when the colony numbers are too low to handle the area they need to defend.

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Our friends from Oz gave good advice about the hive mat usage - it’s funny, they aren’t commonly used here in the US, but I’ve always wondered if I should try.

When I read your post about the mat I was wondering if you left a super on your split?

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Yes, super is still on the parent hive. I’ve only extracted 1 frame. They have been busy decapping, refilling. My thinking is given we’re in spring and the flow is still on, the extra space won’t be an issue. I observe they are moving wax and honey down into the brood box, but I don’t mind as it belongs to them.

Fortunately SHB is not an issue here in Western Australia. Thanks for the tips on strengthening the split. Will report back soon on my findings.

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South West Australia, they’re up North unfortunately.

bugger… only a matter of time then :astonished:

Here is a quick snapshot of what I found today in the new split from 1 week ago.

Found 3 queen cups and at least one had a larvae in it. The bees were in the way of the other ones. Any issue with letting mother nature take it’s course and letting the fittest queen survive? Or do I prepare against a swarm off…

Plenty of bees on each frame. They seem to be drawing some nice comb too.

All back together and packed nice and tight. Should be getting some good weather, so hope that will help. A bit more activity today and I also saw plenty of drones flying in and out of the new split… most likely getting ready for the queen. But I guess they will be waiting awhile.:rofl:

I also believe I found the source of the wax moth. One of the frames has 2 burrow holes in the top bar with the hole covered with spotty and stringy cocoon like matter. I cleaned it off and packed it with wax for the time being… Hopefully the health of the hive means they can keep on top of it for now. I will scrap that particular frame down the track when the colony number improves and they have more frames to utilise.

Fingers crossed

Cheers,
Fred

Sting Count: 3

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Definitely let the bees continue raising these queens - so many factors leading to the desired outcome of a healthy, well-mated queen safely returned to your colony are in play. About swarming, keep in mind that this is a late stage of colony reproduction that depends on there first being a mated queen present in an overpopulated house.

Hello Fred, when you want to have a clear look at something in particular on a frame that is covered with bees blow some of your breath over the spot and they will clear of it straight away, regardless of having garlic breath or not, it is the Co2 that clears them.:grinning::grinning:
Unfortunately take it as a ‘given’ that SHB will get to you considering the area of Australia it has spread over since it was brought into Australia at the RAAF base at Richmond in NSW.
I’m a great believer in letting nature do its thing in making a new queen so you only need one queen cell in use.
Cheers

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Hi Peter, the Co2 will also upset them :slight_smile: It’s the Co2 we exhale that they target when trying to sting us, not necessarily our face or eyes, which is what I believed for many years.

I drew to a conclusion that if we walk past a group of hives, it’s best to hold our breath until we’re past.

Another thing that recently occurred to me is that a group of people could walk past a group of hives. Someone in that group would be more in danger of getting stung, than if everyone walked past one at a time. Mainly because of the increased amount of co2 that would encompass the group. That is if the group walked near the bees flight path not to mention the guard bees.

This topic has occupied my mind recently, on account that an angry bee seemed to be waiting for me every time I went near my truck. She was angry, out to get me without warning. One followed me into the house, which I welcomed because they soon leave me before going to the window, where I can easily squash them. This one didn’t do that, she kept chasing me. Wilma got a direct hit with fly spray, which did the trick.

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Hi Jeff
I also had one out to get me no matter what, I was painting some vents with a spray can of metal primer down wind from a nearby hive,

I thought wrongly, that the slight breeze would carry the overspray away, but it sort of eddied around.

The result was one upset lady on a mission, after buzzing my face a couple of times I retreated to my workshop with her in hot pursuit, she missed the door but was at the window facing me at my bench with nasty intent.

I laughed at her attempts to break the window, she gave up so I thought, I was saved but 10 seconds later she found the door and flew straight into my forearm with her sting armed and primed, wham.

Got to admire their self sacrificing for the health of the colony.:honeybee::shark:

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Inspected both my hives early today and happy to report on the following:

Parent hive definitely has a queen and she’s laying some good brood pattern. She obviously doesn’t like wire. All new foundations have been drawn and are being used. Plenty of capped honey in the super.

The new split has a reasonable population now all brood have emerged. There is no new capped brood, but I found at least one frame with some eggs and small hatched larvae. All the queen cups are gone. They have struggled drawn 2 new frames.

Here’s where my inexperience has shown itself. I hastily closed up my parent hive with super and then inspected my new split… I should have left the super off for a bit longer whilst I accessed the health of the second hive. In doing so, I could have transferred some capped brood across to help the second colony… all in hindsight… live and learn.

Another inspection in will be on the cards. Do you think it can wait 2 weeks? I suspect the parent hive will definitely be bursting at the seams by then and will need some swarm prevention measures applied.

Another sign of my inexperience was failing to suit up properly. A bee managed to get into my veil… Thankfully I remained calm and with the help of my wife got it out without getting stung. My daughter on the other hand wasn’t so lucky, before my inspections, she unknowingly stepped on a bee and was stung. But it wasn’t one of my bees… this one was very dark compared to mine. Does this fella belong to any of you other Perth bee keepers?

image

Yet to spot my queens!

Cheers,
Fred

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What an excellent thread. I read every post.

Could that be a European Dark/German Honey Bee (Apis mellifera mellifera)? Usually we have the Italians, Apis mellifera ligustica?

Sorry about your daughter being stung Fred, my daughter got stung too. Hopefully she’s not allergic.

Hiya fffffffffred, I’ve found the feral populations around here have what appears to be carnolian traits. Although Italian strains are advertised, bottom line is they’re all mongrels, it’s argued there are no pure strains left in the world, South Aussies Kangaroo Island is rumoured to have one of the last pure strains. I can’t recall which one.
When watching the bees at work on the citrus earlier this year I noticed some black near hairless bees similar to yours pictured and have seen them through the side windows of the Flow supers. Each of my colony’s are from a different source with one BW colony purchase and the rest ferals and each have different behaviours, colours and sizes and each colony has the same. Mongrels.
Anyway back to the bee in question, yes I have bees like that but not likely mine, all of mine are still alive.:crazy_face:
…And that fellas a chick. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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The unused cells under the wire is common Fred, but is a small price to pay when the frames is later used for a honey storage frame and you want to claim the honey in an extractor.
Your learning Fred, at least you have thought about manipulating frames between hives to build up a weaker colony that can become vulnerable to robbing by a stronger hive. I have a dedicated donor hive in my apiary so I can keep all the hives about equal.
Cheers

Ligurian, the Italian.

Apparently more genetically pure than the ones in Italy itself (southern Europe where I come from originally) as those are getting hybridised too.

EDIT: I fact checked that and it is actually not true. There was a study by Latrobe Uni, Uni of Sydney and Uni of Adelaide, and found they signifiantly interbred with other races.

The bees did a beautiful job of drawing that comb. The queen views the exposed wire as a foreign object, so therefore is indicating her disapproval by not laying eggs in those cells. By the time the next generation is to be laid on those frames, the bees will have probably coated the wire with propolis. Then she will lay eggs in them.

It’s best to sink the wire as deep into the foundation as possible without melting it all the way through.

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