How do I answer this criticism/concern about the Flow Hive

Nicely put Beedude, no point in arguing with some people, it gets both parties nowhere.

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Yeah…way to go Dextershed…I have read all the negativity on the Beekeepers forum about the Flow hive too. It is always the same when anything new is introduced into an established group with their established ways of doing things. Although there are lots of different ways of keeping bees…people don’t like their own ways challenged. Look at the way the Poly hives were sneered at until almost everyone on the continent used them …even now beekeepers raise their eyebrows at them…inferring they are less than desirable…or the Beehaus… A perfectly good beehive…when used properly…really got slated. Possibly because it was mainly new beekeepers who bought it. It is the same with the Flow hive…mainly new beekeepers. Why is this? It is because new beekeepers don’t have preconceived ideas about beehives compared to ‘stick in the mud’ old beekeepers. I agree…when the first film of Flow hives roll out next year and show the benefits…it will stick in the craw of the diehards…we will have the last laugh!

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That is exactly the comment I was given last night when I went to my first Bee meeting of the local group. They seemed quite happy to admit they all had different ideas.

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Thanks guys! I appreciate the constructive and informative responses. I definitely am not looking to jump into a fight. I just want to have some sort of background and information to present when someone who is not a total stranger says something to the effect of “just don’t buy that hive thing you shared on Facebook” :wink: I like this group so far :slight_smile: Nice that we can have this conversation without the nastiness that is floating around elsewhere!

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Part of the reason why everyone has different ideas and experiences on a topic is that beekeeping is so very local. This is why it is so good to find people in your area who are beekeepers.

Regarding the criticism of the Flow hive, it’s the potential threat to livelihoods, the ding to the ego (why did I not think of that?), and trying to applying balm to the ego (by proving how smart one is, after all, by thinking of every reason under the sun why Flow will not work - or be bad for bees). I was surprised to learn that beekeeping is low-income/low margin, and it can’t be easy to struggle to make a living (all while getting stung) and seeing people like the Anderson’s prosper so easily. Never mind that it took the Aussies 10 years to get to this point.

Most of all, this product is still in production, only a tiny handful of people have actually seen or used it. Everyone else is operating on faith.

I’m in the fortunate position of being able to afford to take a chance on Flow. Many others are not.

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I moved 2 posts to an existing topic: Using the flow hive in cold climate

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Within the local beekeeping group where I live, there are already subgroups of beekeepers, e.g. Top-Bar hive beekeepers, regular traditional Langstraf (sp?) hive beekeepers, etc. There is room for everyone, and I hope to ceate a new Flow Hive subgroup at the next meeting.

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Hi Leslie, you shouldn’t need to separate Flow Hive users from normal beekeepers, they are one and the same. The only difference is honey harvesting and those with a Flow Super may find that they will also need to perform honey extraction if they are adding extra supers or wanting to have comb honey.

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I am working at learning beekeeping myself but am leanring from a commerial beekeeper who has over 1200 hives and has helped several people over the years get set up. In my case I have three hives of my own, but bought 7 frames that are supposed to be delivered in December sometime which will mean that I will have to wait till the season starts in the springs before I can even use them. My commercial guy ships his bees and hives to California every years and then gets them back. I will not be doing that. In regards to the question of winters. I live in eastern Wyoming and we can get frigid below zero tempratures for days at a time. My beek guy said there are covers you can put over hives left outside that help the bees keep their heat inside. Since I’m new to this all is yet to be discovered by me, but my main concern is that the bees don’t die from exposure.

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I have seen this same kind of arguement happen in all sorts of various groups. Basically once a group is generally set in their ways they see change even positive change as an attack on their way of life. Gamers getting mad that people are starting to view games as an art form and thus open to artistic critique, traditional artists badmouthing digital artists saying the computer does all the work, a lot of people hate change and would rather burn everything down than accept it.

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I heard some beekeepers have small greenhouses for their bees to winter in, but I’m not sure how well that would work in near zero temperatures.

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I am just staying away from other beeks for the moment. I would rather engage in conversation about actual personal experience. The irrational idiot hive bound thinkers are not going to listen to reason. Until I have the evidence of success in my hands what’s the point?

My game plan is this;

Build the hive and make it really nice, well finished, well constructed.

Catch a spring swarm and introduce them to the hive.

Tend the hive until it is thriving.

Tap the hive.

And THEN I am going to start going to the local groups. We have a ton of them in the SF Bay Area. Armed with actual experience, FlowHive honey to see and taste, sample flow frames empty, and full, and a image based PowerPoint I will show them what I have actually experienced. I figure it only takes one innovator in the community to begin to change the mindset of the rest of the community. When a known commodity has success it is difficult to resist being interested and then considering adopting the innovation yourself.

Even the most hive bound beeks has opposable thumbs. And in the end this is just another example of our species being successful because we are tool users. Pretty sure the first guy who knapped flint got a load of derisive comments from his fellow cave dwellers.

And yet? Knives.

I figure as long as I see opposable thumbs there is the possibility of educating ; -)

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Hi @sara, you should find most beekeeping clubs will be quite receptive to you. Your hive when it arrives will not be any different from any other hive and the same rules apply for a Flow hive as does any other. Just be wary that swarms can come with disease so you will need to have experience to recognise and diagnose the problem quickly so you don’t lose them all. Internet beeks are different from the guys at a club so don’t be put off. If you are concerned then don’t mention it is a Flow, as you won’t need the Flow super for a while anyway, just store it away until your brood box is ready.
Oh I see you already have lots of experience, sorry scratch that advice.

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The beeks in the association my Father belongs to are a great resource, and I would call on them anytime, should I have need. I am talking about doing it for other bee keeping associations, where I am not a member. There I think that the best way to show the doubting thomases that, as you point out, the flow frames are not REALLY different from any other frame and the FlowHive offers no more, or less, challenge around keeping good hives than current hives do. That other than improving the extraction technique and the lower rate of hive disturbance it is EXACTLY the same.

All the silliness about squishing bees,and plastic in the hive, and turning the bees into serfs for our own nefarious purposes (as if we don’t already do that in some way already ; -) is all hooey, will be much easier to debunk with the actual flow frame in hand. I think that you are optimistic in viewing clubs as ‘receptive’.

I know that every club has some poor sucker in charge of providing content for every meeting and they struggle with coming up with something each month. I figure if I throw them the bone of an offer to provide content for a meeting they will grab it ; -)

My father did that task for his club for two years and man did he have to work hard to come up with something every month!

I am a good speaker and enjoy doing demos. It should be fun.

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Wellllll. There you have it! Just think of what a service it will be for all the hard done by program coords!

And man, you gotta work on that delegating thang ; -)

The best responses I have gotten in my circle is intelligent interest “That sounds really interesting. I will be interested in hearing/seeing how it works in the real world.”

The common response is “Oh you are so cute. Things like that never work. You go ahead and try it, you’ll see. It’s just a gimmick.” I always feel like they think I have a pink bow on my head. I can almost feel the psychic pat on the head and the unspoken “run along and play with your bees, honey.”

Heh. Just wait >; -}>

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@sara I can almost hear a Southern drawl with that scarcasim! Lol. Flow will be the best thing since sliced bread. Then see who’s laughing!

Sara, don’t ignore your local beekeepers. They are a valuable source of information. I wouldn’t jump to volunteering to speak yet tho. Give it some time to learn the flow. Everything else is still beekeeping. There’s always going to be people who disagree with your methods and something new like the flow is naturally going to have a lot of resistance.

I think that sometimes in the fast flow of information in forums some of the continuity is lost ; -)

To clarify; I by NO means ignore my local group. I am just not talking (much) to them about the FlowHive I will be launching next spring. I feel it will be better too have the 3d articles in hand to show before offering up what I am doing. That should save me all the discussions on why its is “such a bad idea”.

I have no plans to launch any demos until I have had a chance to set up the hive, see it established and form my own opinions of its actual functionality. Strengths and weaknesses both. I will want to run a hive thru all the seasons to see how it works.

I plan on (barring an unexpectedly dismal experience with the flowframes) offering up demo programs to show other beeks what it is all about AFTER all the other steps have been completed. Two years down the road possibly ; -)

I promise I do know what a valuable resource other experienced beeks are. But I also know that I (and my Father) have tended to go with somewhat less traditional methods of hive management, and sometimes the Beek Hive is not so open to that.

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