Imminent swarming preventative split?

Funny you should say all that Jeff- as I was putting that big swarm down beside my own hives- I noticed one was humming quite loudly just after sunset… I suddenly realized maybe it’s about to swarm? It has a flow super on it that’s 90% full of honey…,

In the last 7 days I’ve heard of 12 swarms, caught 3, lost one- and found a new one to nab tomorrow morning! I’ll prolly realize by tomorrow afternoon that I needto make a heap of splits too!

Then I’ve got to get back to that friends of mines hive…

It certainly pays to be ready with equipment for swarms- I’ve been knocking up batches of Frames every day. I need 5 more by tomorrow morning… I hope that rose bush swarm fits in a Nuc…

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Well done jack, when it gets like that, I just slip in foundationless frames if I don’t have any made up. Actually foundationless frames work well on swarms as long as you have one fully drawn frame & you push the foundationless frames up tight. They will build all worker comb initially.

As @Dawn_SD said you can use broccoli boxes or fruit boxes to temporarily house swarms. I have used both.

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that’s a timely reminder about foundationless combs and swarms- now that you mention it I realise all the comb I have seen swarms draw out has been small celled… I had kind of noticed without noticing… It’s good because I have run low of foundation and have been checkerboarding- and was worried I would get too much big celled comb. Now I feel better about my foundationless combs! So thanks.

I have a question about that- will the bees left in a hive that has swarmed also build small cells if you give them fresh combs? I am off to catch that rose bush swarm now- and there is a hive near it (most likely the hive that they swarmed from)- I was considering taking a few frames from that hive for the swarm and putting foundationless into it. Basically it is a guy who has a hive in his front yard that he has ignored for the last year and it has swarmed maybe 3 times in the last two weeks. The lady that put it there is overseas and hasn’t looked at it since last year. Wjen i collect the swarm today I am going to give that hive an inspection.

I put some foundationless frames in my flow hybrid and they have built them out all as huge cells in the last week- but that’s OK as it is above the QX and just for honey.

The big tire swarm I caught yesterday has settled well - the bees are coming out for orientation flights.

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I would only put fully drawn or foundation frames back into the hive. They can still draw large cells in foundationless frames. They seem to have a magic number of how many workers they want before switching over to drones. Each colony will vary as to what that number is.

I have put foundationless frames back into a hive after a split as a temporary measure. When I go in to swap those frames over, sometimes one frame will be 100% workers, so I leave it there, the next frame could be 50/50, or 60/40, whatever. Then the next frame might be 100% drones. You just have to check & see.

PS Jack, with the frames that have a reasonable % of drones that I don’t want in the brood, I’ll cut the drone comb out & place the rest above a QX for the workers to emerge up there. If you’re not into bee larvae fritters, your chooks or your friends chooks will happily feast on them.

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I am using 1.5cm strips of foundation as starter strips- do the bees tend to follow the cell size more when you do that than if you used wood? I guess not- or just a bit?

They will start off with workers, then after that they have a mind of their own :slight_smile:

Jeff: you nailed it yesterday:

“Hi Jack be careful that you don’t fall into the trap that I fell into when I first started out. I used to spend a lot of time chasing swarms, while at the same time, my own hives were swarming. After the penny dropped I stopped chasing swarms & concentrated on preventing my own bees from swarming.”:

guess what?

I was getting ready to go get the rose bush swarm- and suddenly in my yard: SWARM!

One of my own hives has swarmed into a lemon tree in my yard- and it is HUGE. Of course because I have been out catching swarms all the time I didn’t have equipment ready… So Ive been madly dashing about. Luckily I have a friend who needs a hive and he has just painted and prepared his ten frame langstroth. He is on his way to my house now.

the swarms in a bit of a tricky position with branches around it but not too high off the ground.

I will use a frame of brood- but the swarm is so big I am concerned they will reject a 10 frame box as too small. So I am not sure whether to try and get them right into two 10 frames boxes stacked? Or will they see that as too big?? Ahh. confusion and panic sets in.

This swarm is twice as big easily as any other I have seen this week:

hmm I am learning the hard way.

Maybe this photo shows the size of the swarm better:

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jeff: is there often a problem with very large swarms not fitting into ten frame boxes?

I have some 10 frame ideals- I could put one of them between the base and the main box- or I could try using two deep boxes? Or should I just try and get them into one?

Wow, that IS a huge swarm Jack. Yes for sure, nothing like learning the hard way. However it’s all valuable experience.

That swarm looks as big as the swarm out of the flow hive I told you about. The one that issued quite a few weeks ago.

Another flow hive colony swarmed today, not far from me. The one in that thread "Is this hive giving me a clue?"
I’m off shortly do do some splitting.

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I reckon they will fit in a ten frame deep box, but put some brood in there if you can to help hold 'em in. They would also go in two ideals as well I would think - a deep brood frame with brood on it will fit in the two ideals temporarily.

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Whoa- what a day- I am buggered…

Two swarms caught!

My swarm was big and difficult to access. I used a beautiful frame of brood with a bit of everything on it to lure them into the box. A bit of shaking and dumping and at some point the queen must have gone into the box as the swarm behavior changed and they stopped going back to the lemon tree…

By sunset they were all in- entrance stapled shut and my beautiful bees were whisked away to a new life in the country :cry: I lost so many- that swarm was easily 4 times the size of the ones I’ve been catching.

After that was done I went off and nabbed the little rose bush swarm into a Nuc. Easy.

Big lesson learned: don’t chase swarms when your own hives are swarming!

Pre-emptive splits next year…

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It just dawned on me-my work is probably not done. I guess I will have to do something about the hive that swarmed to stop after swarms? What actions should I take now in regards to that hive? It consists of one brood box and one flow super the flow super is 80% full of capped honey.

Am I supposed to go into that hive and destroy all the queen cells but one? Will that help prevent after swarms?

The rosebush swarm I caught this afternoon came from a hive that has cast at least three swarms, possibly four, over the last weeks. I gave that hive a quick inspection today-it has one brood box and one ideal super. The ideal was full of honey and it looked like a great deal of honey also in the broodbox. There was cross combing- it was a mess…

There were not many bees at all in the hive and I noticed one wasp and a few ants. I am thinking that that hive has swarmed so many times it is now in a perilous situation? (Just to clarify- it’s not my hive- a fellow has in in his yard and the lady Who put it there, has gone off to New Zealand for some months and hardly ever if ever inspected it )

Page 22:
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

:blush:

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thanks Dawn,

so basically I check the hive- identify the queen cells- and then just when they are due to emerge I release them all and destroy any that are uncapped…

Looking at the hive- the flow super is 90% full of capped honey- but now pretty much empty of bees… I am guessing I should harvest all that honey. I am also guessing I may have trouble with ants or other invaders now the colony is weak and low on bees- they won’t be able to protect the super as well?

perhaps I will try and build that hive back up by giving it some brood from some other hive?

Hi Jack, if that hive is “pretty much empty of bees”, I think I’d be inclined to leave it as it is & let the strongest queen be the victor. If they do issue an after swarm, let’s face it, half of “pretty much empty of bees” is not many. Plus the fact that after swarms don’t always happen.

What I do myself is break all of the swarm cells down & let them build emergency queens. It takes a little bit longer to get a queen, however by that time the urge to swarm has passed & the bees are in emergency queen mode, not swarm mode. That’s my line of thinking.

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I think @Dee has a nice modification of this. Not sure if I remember it correctly, but it is something like destroy all queen cells except for one or maximum two of the nicest-looking ones. If they have too many queens, they may well produce a cast swarm. If you don’t see eggs in a month or so, I would give them a frame of brood from another hive, so that they can have another go at making a good queen.

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