Overwintering for first time

Alok - as the saying goes, ask one question of two beekeepers and you’ll get three answers. Again this makes it tricky (and inappropriate) to offer one-size-fits all advice. Local beekeepers (as close by as possible) will always be best placed to offer pertinent advice.

I have asked for our overwintering info to be reviewed, thank you so much for your input.

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Free, that’s great to hear, I appreciate the help and I’ll be eager for the update on what the team decides to do to guide new northern buyers better. So far I haven’t seen nor given more than the one answer to this question :wink:

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I love the passion for beekeeping here! :grin:

I’d love to step back a bit, particularly for the sake of a prime beginner learning opportunity, and ask the experienced beekeepers in temperate and colder climates what wintering a hive means to them and why.

Also, what is the basic premise of wintering?

I’ve only kept bees in a subtropical climate (my temperate wintering learning is all theory-based), so would love any insight, correction, feedback on my attempt to explain below.

Wintering is a concept where the beekeeper considers the hive configuration and existing honey stores to manage the survival of the colony through the upcoming period of extended time with no forage available and cold temperatures.

Particularly important sub-considerations to make include:

  • The colony will form a cluster to keep warm which will make its way around the hive consuming honey stores (this is why it’s important to remove the queen excluder so she isn’t left behind in the brood box and dies)
  • The bees vibrate themselves to generate heat, which requires energy, which requires honey
  • Open or unoccupied space in the hive can greatly reduce the hive temperature, requiring more honey to be consumed by the bees to generate energy/heat to keep themselves warm or avoid freezing
  • If the colony does not have enough honey stores in the wintering process for them to survive their hive configuration (capacity, strength, length of dearth etc.) the beekeeper will need to supplement them with sugar syrup to reach the minimum amount required
  • Other methods to help mitigate starvation and freezing include reducing the hive capacity considerably, such as a single deep brood, however, I understand that this may only be suitable for certain breeds of honey bee that are adapted to significant wintering (e.g. the queen stops laying completely for a period of time).

In summary, how do you winter your hive in a temperate/cold climate?

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I’d like to add to what you described. “Wintering” also involves making sure the bees are healthy - particularly in the late summer/early fall - and able to raise hardy winter bees that will survive the duration of the cold season when the queen and colony would otherwise be unable to maintain the population.

Pest and disease pressure greatly limit the colony’s ability to weather the winter.

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@Bianca : Thanks for posting that outline. It’s all a little puzzling to me, particularly the timing. As a reminder, I live in a climate that gets snow and sub freezing temps.

  • When do I close up the hive, and how?
  • How can I tell if the bees are struggling during winter and need feeding or other intervention?
  • When I did my last brood inspection, I was surprised that there was almost no honey stored in any of the the three hives. My last harvest on one hive (the other two are just brood boxes) was in early July. We’ve had an extended rainy summer and I’m assuming the bees were consuming any available honey. So how does this set me up for winter and what else can I do besides feed them daily? Will that be enough?
  • When is it time to open the hive? What’s too early, and what signs do I look for in the outdoors or with the hive to determine that it’s time to free the bees?

Thanks!

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Having kept bees in the UK, I agree with most of that.

I would put a caveat on that. You can use 2:1 or 5:3 syrup to feed in the autumn/fall, but only until the overnight temperatures drop to about 12°C. Much cooler than that, and they have a hard time drying it out for winter storage and they actually stop taking it, even if they don’t have enough food. At that point, fondant or dry granulated white sugar are preferable, and they will take both of those, even in very cold weather.

To add to @chau06’s excellent point, knocking Varroa mite counts down before autumn/fall (or by the end of that season at the latest) is absolutely vital for successful over-winter survival. Infested hives are hugely more vulnerable to dearths and cold weather… :thinking:

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Based on your question about ‘freeing the bees’ it sounds like you might have the impression that we have to actually close up/seal off a hive for winter - we do not. Entrances that are wide open should definitely be reduced, but kept open. Bees do come out to do “cleansing flights” - ie poop - on days that aren’t too bitter cold or stormy, all winter long.

Depending on your region a warmish day in February or March might net some early forage like witch hazel, pussy willow or skunk cabbage, so the bees will start to venture out well before we’ve thought about Tshirts & shorts!

Along with a bee cozy or similar thick outer layer of insulation, I use a shim for insulation (plus feed if necessary) on top of my hives/under the outer cover. Top insulation is a must because cold air meeting the warm area just under the lid will result in condensation - making bees wet, which can kill the whole colony in low temps. To check on feeding I lift the cover & peek into the hole without exposing the colony too much. If bees are right up on top I know they’re into the last bit of stores and I need to add feed.

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@Eva : That’s really helpful. I do have the restricted opening option. And checking just under the lid is something I had not thought of. Thanks!

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Ah yes, great additions re pest/disease pressure (particularly varroa), feeding tips (super important!) and hive insulation. There’s a lot to consider!

@chau06

Can you please go into this more for me? In your experience, what is the difference between leaving a full Flow Super compared to a full Langstroth super for the bees to consume? (i.e. this is in a single deep + single super set up and the colony requires the honey in the super for wintering).

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interesting information

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You’re right about leaving traditional supers on to ensure enough stores through cold months, esp for a single deep. The two other problems with leaving a Flow super on even if you take the QX off is a) the bees will propolize empty or unused space to cut down on drafts and pests, and b) brood rearing gets going long before it’s warm enough for us in regions with cold winters to open up our hives, and the colony will treat the Flow frames the same as any others in that case.

So, with a QX the queen is endangered, and without it we risk a bad impact on our lovely Flow frame’s functionality :wink:

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Lovely, thanks for this insight Eva.

Great discussion, thank you all!

Sooo…please help me summarize, because right now I feel that I made a mistake purchasing a Flow Hive. :face_with_monocle:

The reason I feel this way is because my Flow Super is collecting honey all spring and summer and then has to be removed before winter sets in (I live in northern Virginia, USA), otherwise it will crack when it freezes.

Now, with that Flow Super removed, what are the bees supposed to eat and survive on during the winter? :cold_face: Am I now going to have to buy sugar and feed them all winter in order for them to survive? If so, this makes no sense! I would basically be exchanging sugar for honey!

If I had a traditional Super instead of a Flow Super, then I could leave the traditional Super in the hive for the bees to survive on during the winter.

Please help me understand this situation better because right now I feel like I made a mistake purchasing a Flow Hive. :cry:

You can feed this back to the bees instead of sugar (if you do need to feed them).

That’s not why we remove them per se. It’s all to do with the queen needing access to stores as part of the cluster in wintered hives and the related issues that I posted about previously.

You can still have a traditional super and use it with a Flow super, if your local climate warrants more stores than a deep brood box alone can hold. Which, by the way, will have more honey storage area as the season progresses into fall because the bees shrink the brood nest and backfill those cells with honey, in prep for winter.

Running 1 deep plus 1 medium solves 2 problems for me as a cold climate Flow owner - I do early and decisive swarm prevention, super with a Flow when it’s time, then add a medium box on top of it once the weather gets warmer and more humid. This provides better air flow for nectar ripening, then leaves me with a full medium box of honey to put on top of the deep after removing the Fsuper. Another option is to just grow your colony to the appropriate overwintering size in lower boxes and put the Flow super on top of that.

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Eva, many thanks for the great advice! I think your idea of adding a medium Super is a great idea and I will use that technique next Spring, thank you. As for “collecting,” sorry for the misunderstanding! It is my bees who are doing the “collecting,” not me! I have not yet taken any honey from them this year - I don’t believe that we had a very good nectar flow this year in my neighborhood.

As for now (with winter coming), I have two Flow hives, one with a traditional Super (with queen excluder removed) and the other one with a Flow Super. I think that I will have plenty of honey for the bees in my hive with the traditional Super, but I’m still not sure about my hive with the Flow Super on it. Just to verify, you (and the Flow team) think it would be ok for me to leave my Flow Super on the hive during the winter and just remove the queen excluder?

If so, that would solve my problem of having enough honey for them to survive on during the winter. If not, and you believe that I should remove my Flow Super, then I don’t know what to do to replace it, other than feed the bees sugar all winter long. :face_with_monocle:

Greatly appreciate any more advice you or the Flow team may have, THANK YOU! :slightly_smiling_face:

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You’re most welcome :cherry_blossom:

About the timing and feasibility of adding a medium super, it has been a useful technique for me but just keep in mind you’ll still need to gauge how strong the nectar flow is and how strong your colony is plus the weather.

My answer to that is no, because if your colony and queen remain healthy through the winter they will begin building population again as early as February. Possibly even late January!? So, without the excluder and the cluster already up feeding on stores left in Flow frames, the queen will lay eggs in them. This has been a big mess for others in the forum and I think it’s best to avoid it.

So, I think your next step is to check those Flow frames for any honey, harvest it before removing the entire Fsuper and keep the honey according to whether it’s ripe or not (shelf or fridge) Then, as I said you can just feed it back to them.

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Most helpful Eva, thank you! :innocent:

Eva, do you have any good recommendations on how to feed my bees honey from my Flow Super frames? For example, should I drain the honey into a jar, seal the jar with a lid, put a hole in the lid and then turn the jar upside down? :face_with_monocle:

Jar feeders are good, can be used with honey, but in colder weather you don’t want the extra open space, plus it would freeze. You can use a baggie & place it inside the hive directly on the top bars, and make a couple of small slits with a razor blade on the top side of the baggie.

Thanks Eva, most helpful! :innocent:

Well…I harvested honey from my Flow hive for the first time ever and it worked GREAT, just like in “the movies” (except…I’m not quite as good as an actor as Mr. Cedar from the Flow team)! :sunglasses:

So, I only had two Flow Super frames that were only partially filled with capped honey (~1/4), but it was amazing too see how much honey was produced - please see photos.

However, given the lack of honey in my Flow Super frames, I can only attribute this to the impact of splitting my hive earlier this summer, however, I plan on ordering a new Hybrid Flow hive which I think might work better up here in the northern (cold) latitudes (e.g. less Flow Super frames to fill-up).

Anyway, as you recommended, I will use that honey and nectar that I just collected from my Flow Super to feed my bees throughout the winter, using your baggie technique.

  • My other Flow hive did very well with the traditional Super frames, which were full of capped honey, which I harvested and will give as presents to friends/family this year for Christmas.

I will also be removing and cleaning my Flow frames very soon since we have cold weather heading this way (~30’s F) next week - a task I’m not looking forward to. :cry:

Thanks again for all of your great assistance Eva! :muscle:


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