Oxalic Acid Treatments discussion

After rereading your post I have to ask…what is a walk away split?

Martha,

“A Walk-Away” is a split where a beekeeper looks :eyes: over the colonies resources… if the hive is packed or nearly…lots of progressive brood on 4 to 5 frames or more, maybe lots drones (at least plenty, some play cup or worst (queen cells) … it’s time !! I get another hive box ready … My eyes :eyes: suck so I really don’t look for Queenie!

I divid the colony putting several brood frame (center hive box) with nectar/honey/ pollen frames to each side of the brood frames. I fill in the remaining area with old wax foundation or new frames. That all done I close the two hives up.

The dQueen will (should be) in one of the hives. One of the hives is Queenless n the second will be still with her Magesty … I do another inspection in about 7 Days. The hive with new eggs n progressive brood is your queened colony n the second is queenless. That colony needs requeened if your not lucky enough to have gotten eggs in the transfer… if you did get gets over there you’ll usually see new Queen cells on one or more frames about mid/center of a frame. If not you should either transfer a frame of brood with eggs over or secure a new queen from a supplier! That’s how I do “Walk-Aways” with my crappy eyes.

Hopefully that’s not too confusing or complicated …

Cheer,

Gerald.

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I don’t think I was aggressive enough in removing frames of bees then. My apiary is at capacity and I’ll have to find someone that will work a trade that I trust has healthy bees.

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Martha,

Wow :open_mouth:! To have such a problem ! Yours is a very clean n organized Apiary. Congrats :tada:! Up here I run between 4 to 10 hives depending on the time of the season. Sometimes I run several 5 frame Nuc hives as well. I finished last summer with up to 10 … Yellow jackets killed off a couple … our summer was extremely hot, dry n a flower/food dreath all August into September. Only 3 hives were really stocked up to needed honey :honey_pot: supplies. Not an issue … I’d autumn feed n give winter patties was my plan. Then my body started giving me serious healthy issues (turned out I had heart failure) thus I was able to winter feed n care like normal … I’m at 3 healthy colony with 3 Nuc’s ordered for mid-April delivery ! Soon or later ill need to do a couple “Walk-Aways” so back up to about 7 to 8 colonies n equipment for 10 if needed (those last 2 hives I consider temporary housing only because I start combining weaker hives n honey supplies for the coming winter.

I’m always dividing, combing n working with my bees :honeybee:… I’ve currently have two satellite apiaries to take colonies too at least 4 to 20 miles from my home Apiary. It’s nice to have a second local 3 to 5 miles away. Often doing a split I like that optional distant location so my split worker bees don’t return to the original spot !

I swap frames (resources) to try n keep all my colonies equal n strong :muscle:. At least I cross my fingers that happens :laughing:. Sooner or later I end up combining two hives as one gets weaker for some reason. That’s my yearly/seasonal game plans. Got to see how the summer weather turns out, Yellow jacket problems, mite warfare, n my health issues.

I’m keeping on keeping on trying new ways n stuff plus staying positive! What more can I do or ask for I Love Beekeeping !

Cheers :clinking_glasses: from the Pacific NW,

Gerald

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Here’s an FYI on my treatments prior to the season. All 3 treatments went well though one hive with an abundance of drones has escalated the varroa population. When I removed all winterizing and set up the flow hives with screened bottom boards I checked the core flute and one hive dropped a lot of varroa. I will have to retreat the hives though all went well during the scheduled treatments.

What might have gone wrong?

  1. The winter bridge comb build up might have inhibited permeation throughout the hive.
  2. I did something wrong.
  3. Timing was off with drone cells not hatching.
  4. What was on the core flute was dead varroa due to my treatment cuz I can’t tell if they are dead or alive.

1 treatment every 5 days for 3 consecutive treatments is what I performed. However the hive which shows the varroa is a very strong hive and highly populated. So even though the nectar flow is on, I feel like another round might be necessary.

To get through my hive I had to remove so much bridge come to avoid killing bees to put it back together so this might allow the vapor to travel through the hive better.

Any thoughts on this? Hints and tips?

Hi @Martha, I think you have some good ideas, and tidying up the bridge comb is always helpful. One of the things I like to do with Varroa treatment is an “accelerated mite drop” count. Sounds fancy, but it is very simple.

  1. While you are vaping, thoroughly clean off the core flute slider.
  2. When you have finished with the iron, put the clean slider back
  3. Exactly 24 hours later, remove the slider carefully and count the number of mites.
  4. If there are more than 25 mites on the whole slider, repeat treatment every 5 days until the count drops.

This is a standard method used in the UK. I have sometimes found that 6 or 7 treatments may be needed, especially at times where robbing increases and my naughty bees have picked up some dirty old mites from somebody else’s weak hive.

If you have a super on the hive, you should take it off before vaping. I am not so concerned about OA getting into the honey, as the extra space diluting the OAV to a suboptimal levels.

Hope that helps.

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I think I’m going to slide the plugged inner cover under the super, treat the bees again and wait until the vapor goes away and reset up in the normal configuration. I’ve watched a few videos on the timing of the vapor leaving the hive for safe replacement of the super.

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Oh, that’s what I do with the core flute. I clean it and spray it with cooking oil too. It was just odd that after a heavy rain I checked it and was surprised at the varroa level.

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Just make sure to check it exactly 24 hours after the previous treatment - that is the only count that matters. More than 25 mites, you want to vape again 5 days after the last treatment :wink:

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My experience with OAV has been that it kills mites…for two falls I gave the suggested 5-7 consecutive treatments and was impressed with the mite fall. Unlike Dawn, I did my counts after 72 hours and after each treatment I did the mite drop counts and recorded religiously and saw the numbers start to drop after the 4th treatment or thereabouts…I thought I had got them…nope…but I was learning that fall wasn’t the perfect time to use OAV.

The next year I did them in February (with great apprehension…during our brood break) and I did get them down nicely.

In your case, you are trying to use OAV in the spring which will likely be only be effective if you use it throughout the summer on a regular basis…not the best case scenario if you are removing honey…and alot of extra work.

What you have experienced with OAV mimics what has happened to me…there is always some hives that the mite populations returned unexpectantly.

So what can you do? From my armchair, I humbly suggest you try the blue shop towel method over summer and hope that you can hold (not necessarily reduce) that undesireable mite population until your honeyflow is over…my experience says it works. Then put in the Apivar strips (uggh) before the end of August…the earlier, the better…this method will kill the varroa under the brood capping which unfortunately OA doesn’t.

One season runs into another rather quickly when dealing with varroa control…but after 2 seasons (2 years) you should be getting the mite numbers and associated viruses down to where you are enjoying beekeeping more. Then treatment becomes more routine…you’ve figured out what has to be done…until the next “apocalypse de jour” strikes.:unamused:

But working healthy bees is so gratifying…and the bees may reward you so generously.

Here’s a link for the blue shop towel method:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/

I’m still trying to get my mite levels down for an extended length of time. Then I can hopefully rely on the blue shop towels for mite controls instead of using a synthetic miticide.

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I’m reading all of this with interest. We are newbees at this, and just tried our first sugar roll today.

And didn’t find any mites.

In hindsight, our technique may have been lacking, we plan to try again next week…

I’ve been reading about blue shop towels with great interest.

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I’m new a novice too. This is why I’m here discussing my results because I am on a treatment schedule but quickly learning trouble is not in cadence with my schedule. Sigh. Feedback from the peeps encourages me that I’m doing as best I can and to keep plugging away at fighting the bastages!

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Yes. One of the reasons we are so paranoid is reading others’ experiences.

We also have hive beetles. So enraging. I’ve put in oil traps, and am looking forward to seeing if it did any good next weekend.

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The fact that you looked for them and noticed them is impressive. My hives are in San Diego. About 2 years ago, I started to see a lot of small hive beetles (SHB) in our hives, despite gentle handling etc. When I asked my mentor, he said he has never seen any. Same with most people in our bee club.

So I went to our City Inspector, who is very approachable and non-judgmental. He told me that he has seen quite a lot, increasing over the last few years. After discussion, we were both worried that local beekeepers may be getting complacent about SHB in our area, so he released an alert with a management plan. Good guy.

I have been lucky so far not to have a “slime out” where SHB make the hive unlivable for the bees. I recognize that it is possible though, and the price of peace is eternal vigilance.

With that in mind, good for you putting traps in. Try not to squish bees, and don’t leave pollen patties in the hive for more than a week without checking them for disgusting SHB larvae. :wink:

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We may have acquired them along with the nuc. Or maybe they flew in from a nearby hive. From what I read, they can fly quite long distances, like the bees.

We are super gentle with our hive, but we are novices, and I am not naive enough to think nobody gets squished… we try very hard, but I know every time we get in the hive someone gets caught somewhere.

I first noticed them in the hive top feeder. I pull off the lid every day, twice a day to look for the little bastiches in that feeder, and crush any I find. I also pull out the bottom board and clean it off daily, and occasionally find one or two, or some of their larva there.

I have oil traps in with a bit of cider vinegar and mineral oil. And I have more of them if I need them.

We looked at several of the frames today, and I haven’t found any slimy parts, but there have been SHB larva on the bottom board, so I know they are there somewhere. Hopefully the hive is strong enough to manage with some help.

Thinking we may have to put another brood box on next weekend, so we will look again then, as well as trying to test again for varroa.

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When you have a bit more time and experience, you might like to take some photos. Those larvae on the bottom board are frequently wax moth larvae - also disgusting, but not quite so damaging. They differ in size by a factor of 2 or so (SHB are much smaller), but that is very hard to see when you are starting out. Meanwhile, I am remain impressed with your approach. :blush:

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Oh… I haven’t been using pollen patties either. The girls are coming home with fat pollen legs, and knowing the darn SHB are there, I decided to not do that, at least for now.

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Those farging iceholes, you crush them Jc!:sweat_smile:

Seems like you’re off to a good start :+1:

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I sing to my girls and swear at the pests. Anyone watching me probably thinks I’m nuts.

But it’s hard to believe they don’t love me back after letting me do this to them:

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I am SO glad you joined this forum. I like your style! :smile:

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