Take a look at this video I found. I like it and although it is hard to hear, the delivery is slow and succinct. Not saying it is the best method or anything, but when you are learning, this looks simple enough.
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Hi thanks so much. Which 3 frames did you move up, some brood ?
Hi and thanks, I really like the video. I think that is what I will do at the next phase when I split the hive.
One older mainly brood frame, the other 2 were mixed, honey/pollen, bit of brood. I put the brood frame up to attract the nurse bees. The bees seemed to accept the new box immediately. Apart from a bit of brood it probably doesn’t matter so much what and how much you move up. Could have done 4.
Will see now how long it all takes. Will do a split a couple of months later.
Also want to cycle that old brood frame out by putting it under the flow roof later. Came with a nuc that old frame.
Excellent I think I will do the same as we received old brood frames also in our intial nuc.
Thanks again.
Hi & thank you Gaz, I’m not really a fan of 2 brood boxes. I would take some brood with bees, minus the queen to start a new colony. Wait until the top box is full of bees, but not too long. I picked up a huge swarm today that issued out of what I suspect to be a flow hive. There was that many bees, I couldn’t imaging that being half the bees from a standard flow hive. I wondered if the roof cavity was full of bees before they swarmed. That is something to watch out for, the roof cavity full of bees.
I didn’t speak with the owner, he’s over seas. I picked the swarm up next door to him.
It IS amazing how quickly the bees buildup this time of year. When the time comes, I’d take 3 frames with brood, bees, minus the queen, into a nuc box. I’d shake a few more bees in to help the brood during the cold nights, then take it several k’s away so that the older bees don’t return to the original hive. This is also to do with SHB’s.
While the nights are still cold, I’d keep the remaining five frames huddled together & place the 3 replacement frames on the outside. Reduce the entrance of the nuc.
Thanks Jeff. We have blocked off the roof on our flow hive so bees don’t build up there.
We haven’t put the 2nd brood box on yet. My logic was to put it on and make a stronger hive before taking it off again to make 2 hives.
Since we haven’t done that yet perhaps we should just create the nuc from our existing brood box straight away.
I was concerned taking 3 frames out of 8 frames would weaken the hive too much.
I do have a spare 5 frame nuc box I could use instead of 8 frame box.
Hi Gaz, if you let the bees have access into the roof, the same as the bees have access into the roof of a migratory lid with the use of a vinyl mat, that would be an advantage. That tells me if I have a population explosion. It can happen in as little as a week. All you need is a few full frames of brood to hatch out, coupled with good conditions. All of a sudden you have a hive that one week looks ordinary to the next week it’s overflowing with bees:) After the cool change we’re about to have passes, will be a good time to do the split, provided the hive is strong enough.
Think like the bees: Once we start to think like bees, then we can apply that to our beekeeping strategies. See the bees swarm during the spring because they know that the days are getting longer, the nights warmer, plenty of pollen & nectar coming in. Therefore they know they have a long season ahead of them in order to buildup again, after issuing a swarm. The same thing goes for the swarm itself.
Seeing as we are both in an area where SHB is a problem, we also have to take that into consideration with everything we decide to do with our bees.
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Thanks Jeff. How does the mat work? Do you remove the vinyl mat as it gets warmer to give access to the extra space in the lid?
No Gaz, I leave it on all year round. It has a bees space all around it so the bees have access to the lid. I keep my lids painted white, that keeps them cooler. Actually @Rodderick recently put a photo of his on the forum.
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Hi Jeff. Yep, that hole in the board under the roof is my best ommunication device. So far it has been a wonderful source of important info.
I followed Rod’s advice regarding the second brood box, since I don’t want my bees to make their own queen. I’m getting a couple of KI Ligurian queens sent early December and want to build up the population without swarms and growing queens until then. So the second broodbox is my best option. Maybe it is an advantage even for the spring flow. Lots of bees for collecting nectar. I have no idea, but we will see.
Flow had a live video about spring preps and Cedar suggested to put an old frame to cycle out under the roof, on its side, just a bit propped up so the bees can get to it. Even with brood. That was a bit of good info.
Jeff, is it ok for the bees if they don’t find any pollen? The last 2 days there are about none coming in. Is it too dry? How long can they survive without pollen when it’s spring build up time?
Hi Gaz, if you want your bees to make a new queen, just ensure you got some drones in your neighbourhood. Some areas seem ok, some have none yet. My bees didn’t grow any yet, but a neighbour has drone laying workers. Not sure if they are any good and doesn’t provide for diversity I guess, but there would be some.
Hi again Jeff. Wanted to ask you, what would you do if you had drone laying workers in your hive? And how do you just lose a queen suddenly? The neighbour has about 5 full frames of capped drone brood in an 8 frame brood box. Looks a bit hopeless to me.
Yes my neighbour has hives so will check them out for drones
Hi Weber Clan. The “Spring buildup time” coincides with lots of honey & pollen coming into the hives. Without the abundance of pollen & honey, there will be no spring build up, as we know it. We still have two weeks of winter to go, so don’t write off a decent spring build up just yet.
Queens die for various reasons, I have seen 2 young queens getting balled by the colony during an inspection. Then a 3rd one getting balled during a tree hive removal we did a couple of years ago. They can get accidentally squashed during an inspection, They can get superseded with the young queen failing to get mated. I read once that there is a one chance in seven of a virgin queen failure.
Laying workers happen when a virgin queen fails. It’s how a dying hive has the ability to pass on it’s genes, through all of the drones it can produce. We need to recognize the issue fairly quickly & fix it before it gets as bad a your neighbors hive.
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Hi Cathie, looks like the cold westerlies made it just in time for the close of the Ekka. I hope your garden isn’t too shredded. I started doing splits again, however I’m being cautious & reducing the entrances for the time being. I think I’ll be lighting the fire tonight.
Hi Jeff - Dang Westerlies!!! My garden is holding up ok but it’s so dry down here and the winds just seem to pull the moisture right out of the soil. Really hoping for rain soon. Also I may have a new queen needing to take her maiden flight soon and I worry she will get tossed around by these wind gusts and not make it back to the hive. Ack!
I probably did the split too early but so far all signs are good. The old queen is laying in the new box and her girls are coming and going with pollen, seemingly more of them each day. The old hive with the larger population seems very busy, less pollen going in but would have less brood to take care of I think.
I am very hopeful that it will go well and I will have two laying queens soon. Then my next chore will be working out how to cycle out the puffy frames from the original cut out I did so that the brood boxes will be easier to manage! Fun and games…
Hi Cathie, if your queen doesn’t work out, just add another frame of brood. I have one colony that had 4 goes at making a queen. This time lucky. Each frame also adds young bees to the colony.
It doesn’t hurt to add that extra frame a little earlier. You don’t want to leave it too long otherwise a worker will become a layer. Then it become a bit more fiddly.
I’ve been waiting patiently for the days to pass, praying for nights to be warm, skies sunny and winds to be low! And the weather has been great for the last few days. I checked the new box with the old queen yesterday. All seems to be well there, sealed and unsealed brood - not a huge population but healthy. One beetle which I dispatched. So now I am turning my eyes to the old hive which has been pumping with activity. My question is, when should I open the hive to look for evidence that they have a laying queen? I don’t want to disturb them too soon and I’m not sure I’ll be able to find a small queen in that busy hive but don’t want to go too long before giving them another frame of brood if it’s needed…
Hi Cathie, good morning. Don’t even look for the queen. 21 days may still be a bit early. I would give it another 7. When the time comes, look over the brood & gently remove a frame in the area with the most amount of activity. You should see the classic half football arch, where the bees want the queen to lay in. Look for new eggs etc. If she hasn’t laid on that frame, she may have started on one of the adjacent frames. If you don’t see any eggs, it wont hurt to add a frame of brood that contains new fertile eggs or very young larvae. Take a look in another 7 days time.
I have a few nucs in exactly the same situation. I’m making more every day now.
Good luck with yours, cheers
PS, the bees can readily ball & kill a young queen. That’s one reason for not looking to physically see the queen. Do the inspection with the least amount of disturbance.
Thanks Jeff for all your advice. And other respondents to all my questions too. It’s kind of all the experienced beekeepers to patiently respond to newbies who are so anxious to do the right thing by our bees. I had miscalculated the days since the split actually but I will follow this timeline and cross my fingers!
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