# What timber to use when building a hive from scratch **URL:** \ **Category:** Modifications & Building Bee Hives\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056 "2016-05-19T08:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 9:57am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/161 "2019-12-03T09:57:34Z")
Oh jeez, I didn’t check under the sunken caps, I uncapped a couple (can’t remember how sunken they were) and there was pupae as usual, no fowl brood ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Bush](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/michael_bush/32/1024_2.png) [@Michael\_Bush](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Michael_Bush)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/162 "2019-12-03T13:56:21Z")
> [@RaniK](#): > > Who grafts their own queens? I graft every week during the bee season. > If you do, have you used the “Nicot” method and should I buy it. I actually like the Jenter method a bit better. Same concept but there are more places for the queen to lay in the box and therefore it seems easier to get her to lay in it. But you can do graftless without buying anything. The Hopkins method (The Australasian Bee Manual, by Isaac Hopkins) is a way to get all of the larvae in the position to be made into queens without buying anything. > **[Hopkins Method of Queen Rearing from Chapter XII page 108 of the Australasian...](https://bushfarms.com/beeshopkinsmethod.htm)** > > Hopkins Method, Isaac Hopkins. If you've been looking for 'the Hopkins method' of queen rearning, here it is in his own words. Also a description of it from Pellet. A method of queen rearing that requires no special equipment and no grafting. The better queens method and Hopkins old method also work as does the Miller Method and the Alley Method. > **[Better Queens by Jay Smith (with thumbnails)](https://bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm)** > > Better Queens by Jay Smith. This is the new book on queen rearing by Jay Smith. It details a method that does not require grafting and give many good details on getting cells started, finished and mated. > **[Isaac Hopkins on Queen Rearing from The Australasian Bee Manual, 1886](https://bushfarms.com/beeshopkins1886.htm)** > > Isaac Hopkins on Queen Rearing from The Australasian Bee Manual, 1886. This is the chapter on queen rearing from The Australasian Bee Manual. It predates 'The Hopkins Method' but has a lot of good advice on queen rearing. The method is very... > **[Miller Method (condensed from 50 years among the Bees) by C.C. Miller](https://bushfarms.com/beesmillermethod.htm)** > > Miller Method (condensed from 50 years among the Bees) by C.C. Miller. This is a classic method of queen rearing that does not require any special equipment and does not require grafting. > **[Alley Method (condensed from THE BEE-KEEPER'S HANDY BOOK I)](https://bushfarms.com/beesalleymethod.htm)** > > Alley Method, THE BEE-KEEPER'S HANDY BOOK I, HENRY ALLEY, Beekeeping books, classic, old, queen rearing, TWENTY-TWO YEARS' EXPERIENCE QUEEN-REARING CONTAINING THE ONLY SCIENTIFIC AND PRACTICAL METHOD OF REARING QUEEN BEES, AND THE LATEST AND BEST... And if you want to graft: > **[Scientific queen-rearing by Gilbert M. Doolittle](https://bushfarms.com/beesdoolittle.htm)** > > Scientific queen-rearing, G.M. Doolittle, Doolittle, Gilbert M. Doolittle, Queen Rearing, Beekeeping books, classic, old. This is the classic queen rearing book that put grafting on the table as a valid method of queen rearing. This edition is the... > **[Queen Rearing Simplified by Jay Smith](https://bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm)** > > Queen Rearing Simplified by Jay Smith. This is one of the most popular books of all time, on grafting queens. ---
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 10:48am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/163 "2019-12-19T10:48:34Z")
First casualty colony to hive beetles! It was a cutout from a week ago, damn the infestation can be so quick! I didn’t check up on them since I made the cutout and I remember seeing a few beetles and a section of comb which had SHB larvea in it, so I can an threw it away, thinking that was that. So naive! lol Inspected today and there were only a cup full of bees! Thinking back now, I believe there was too much brood comb for the amount of bees and I probably should have taken some capped brood to other hives so this hive is left with just enough comb to guide effectively. Where else did I go wrong and what do I do now? ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/164 "2019-12-19T19:02:33Z")
Hi Rani, I think you nailed the main cause. Too much brood for the bees to protect. Another thing to consider is too much comb & possibly damaged brood for the number of bees to quickly clean up. The beetles also lay eggs in dead bees, especially if they are laying in honey. Another thing to consider is to keep a bee space between the frames. You don’t want any combs up against each other. Just make sure that no larvae make it to ground where they’ll complete their life cycle 4" below the surface. It’s a valuable learning experience. ---
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/165 "2019-12-19T21:11:09Z")
Thanks Jeff, the space between frames and too many damaged brood are very good tips. That’s why next time I’ll just move enough comb to other hives and just leave minimal for the cut out hives to protect. By the way these hives are on concrete and no soil nearby do its good in that way. Now what should I do with this hive? Melt the wax with larvae inside? Or freeze the frames first (the Mrs will move out if I stored these frames in our freezer so that’s not an option 😩) ---
**Author:** ![Peter48](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/peter48/32/14625_2.png) [@Peter48](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Peter48)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/166 "2019-12-19T23:40:33Z")
You could melt the comb and filter is to remove the rubbish. maybe there is not a need to filter it the forst time as the rubbish will fettle to the bottom of the wax and above the water, but I like to filter my wax with the final cleaning so it is a nice clean yellow block of pure wax which is easy to sell. Cheers ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/167 "2019-12-20T00:50:45Z")
Hi Rani, I have a bin for rendering wax which I do in my honey room. I boil all the wax with beetle larvae in water, the same as I normally do with wax. Then I pour the whole lot through a strainer that sits on top of a plastic wax mold. After it cools down, the block of wax sits on top of the water, the same as fat when a stew cools down. I let my guard down recently which resulted in a weak nuc getting slymed. That was last week. Luckily I found it before any grubs got big enough to crawl out. I cut everything out of the 4 frames, straight into the bin. Then I added 4 litres of water before bringing it all to the boil. Then I turned it off. Now it’s ready for when I render some more wax next week. I’ll simply bring it back to the boil while adding more wax that needs rendering after my next honey harvest this coming Monday. ---
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/168 "2019-12-20T01:50:40Z")
Thanks for the replies guys, couple of hours ago I reported the SHB infestation to DPI (as I’m required to). I asked the lady on the phone about what to do next and she passed me onto Rod Burke. He said he wouldn’t use the same wax to make foundation as it may contain foul honey smell (it was slimy) and the bees prob won’t draw on it? ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/169 "2019-12-20T03:43:34Z")
No,… no no no. If you do what I do, it’ll be fine, no problems at all. I have a reputation for good quality wax with Burnett Beekeeping Supplies. When they get it, they relish it. ---
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/170 "2019-12-20T04:01:10Z")
Great mate, it’ll be good to salvage the wax at least, I’ve already lost the whole colony ☹ You should make a quick video on how you render your wax On a side note, I’ve had some honey/nectar sitting in sealed bucket from a cutout about a week ago (different one), I finally had some time to strain it today, I feed it back to the colony it belonged to. When I opened the bucket there was a slight fermenting smell. Should I still feed it to the bees? ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/171 "2019-12-20T04:08:57Z")
I probably wouldn’t feed it back to the bees. Would you eat it yourself? DON’T think of the exercise as a waste of a colony or potentially the honey in the bucket. Think of it as a valuable learning exercise. If you put a $ value on it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the value of the lessons learned was greater than the value of the lost bees & honey. ---
**Author:** ![Freebee2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/freebee2/32/18643_2.png) [@Freebee2](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Freebee2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/172 "2019-12-20T05:35:14Z")
That’s a good way of looking at it @JeffH 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:09am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/173 "2019-12-20T06:09:55Z")
Thank you Free, I wish I could have thought of it like that whenever I learned valuable beekeeping lessons in the past. It always hurts to lose a colony through a silly mistake or simply ignorance… ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Challita](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/charlie_challita/32/20516_2.png) [@Charlie\_Challita](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Charlie_Challita)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/174 "2019-12-26T06:42:40Z")
hi mate, im also thinking of building or buying a long horizontal hive, i did a little resurch on timber also, i recommend merbau , teak or any untreated hardwood timber, just be carefull some timbers buckle or worp, im not sure which ones they are but im looking into it also, if you did i plan of your hive would love to see it, ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Challita](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/charlie_challita/32/20516_2.png) [@Charlie\_Challita](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Charlie_Challita)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2019, 6:47am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/175 "2019-12-26T06:47:03Z")
hi rob, does pine warp or buckle if its a 30 frame long ---
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/176 "2020-01-15T13:16:17Z")
Hey guys Wanted to ask a question that’s been on my mind for a while. What’s the fastest way to expand the number of colonies? 1- making many smaller splits (2 frame nucs) 2- waiting and making bigger splits (5 frame nucs) ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/177 "2020-01-15T15:53:38Z")
I wouldn’t risk a 2 frame nucleus. It might be OK, but they will be really low on population, and unless they have a laying queen from the start, they will struggle with bee numbers for over a month. The minimum number of frames I would put in a nucleus would be 3, but I would prefer 4 or 5. ---
**Author:** ![JeffH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/jeffh/32/7192_2.png) [@JeffH](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/JeffH)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/178 "2020-01-15T20:29:22Z")
Hi Rani, if you start off at the start of spring with a good strategy, it is incredible how many colonies you can build up to if that is your only goal. It can really snowball, similar to the Fibonacci sequence of numbers. I agree with @Dawn_SD, I would prefer 4-5 frame nucs. Start off with large nucs, then after the queen cells are made, you can split them into smaller nucs, especially if you choose brood frames that are mostly sealed & emerging bees. Work on a ratio of 1 full frame of brood will produce 3 frames of bees. Good luck with your endeavors, cheers ---
**Author:** ![RaniK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RaniK](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/RaniK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/179 "2020-01-15T22:49:16Z")
Thanks very much guys. Well, just before Christmas I made 5 splits of 2 frames, some of them were 1 brood and 1 honey. 1 was lost to SHB even though it was all capped brood, I guess it didn’t have enough nurse bees to protect it and the brood wasn’t as close to hatching as I estimated. I will not be splitting anymore this year and when I start splitting next spring I will stick to 4-5 frame nucs Can I confirm your ratio of brood:stores you include in your splits? From what I’ve seen on YouTube, 1-1.5 capped brood, 1 honey, 1 pollen, 1 foundation and shake 2 additional frames of bees? ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056/180 "2020-01-16T01:06:24Z")
> [@RaniK](#): > > From what I’ve seen on YouTube, 1-1.5 capped brood, 1 honey, 1 pollen, 1 foundation and shake 2 additional frames of bees? I would use 2 frames BIAS (brood in all stages - especially if they need to make a queen), 1.5 of honey, 0.5 of pollen and one of drawn empty comb (not foundation). I don’t generally shake in extra bees if I haven’t shaken bees off when taking frames from the parent hive. [Previous page](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/what-timber-to-use-when-building-a-hive-from-scratch/7056.md?page=10)