# Winter Deadouts :( Ball Ground, GA, USA **URL:** \ **Category:** Wintering your Flow Hive\ **Created:** [January 22, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771 "2017-01-22T18:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/49 "2017-01-30T04:10:40Z")
> [@Petergw10](#): > > Is the alcohol wash method more effective than the powdered sugar approach for measuring the varroa burden? Yes, but it is 100% lethal to the bees tested, unlike the sugar roll/shake. All bees undergoing alcohol wash will die. With care, very few subjected to powdered sugar die. Randy Oliver of [scientificbeekeeping.com](http://scientificbeekeeping.com) has done quite a few experiments. This is one of them, but I think there is an even better article on his web site somewhere: [Sick Bees - Part 11: Parasite Monitoring - Scientific Beekeeping](http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick-bees-part-11-mite-monitoring-methods/) Thank you for the compliment. Please let us know how things go for you, and what you decide to do for this year. We are all learning, and when you share, you help us all. ---
**Author:** ![Petergw10](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/petergw10/32/16050_2.png) [@Petergw10](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Petergw10)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/50 "2017-01-30T04:33:38Z")
Thank you again Dawn! Is there a way for me to properly preserve the honey/frames from this colony to use in another hive or what is the recommended practicing habits. It would be nice if these frames/honey do not go to waste. ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/51 "2017-01-30T04:46:52Z")
> [@Petergw10](#): > > Is there a way for me to properly preserve the honey/frames from this colony If you are satisfied that there is no poison or infection (like AFB etc), then you could store the frames. I don’t see any convincing signs of poison or infection, but if you have a friendly local bee inspector (ours in San Diego is very helpful), you could ask their opinion. Also, I don’t know how far you are from Renton, WA, but @Gerald_Nickel has a very kind mentor who is a professor and bee expert, so he may be willing to help you look at your hives (I might offer a covert “tip” for his expert time, but that is just me 😉) Assuming the frames are disease-free, I would take them out of the hive and freeze them for 48 hours. You may not need to do that in Washington state, but the reason is that 48 hours at -20C will kill SHB, wax moth larvae and several other pests. You can then wrap the frames in plastic - I use a contractors large black plastic bag. Seal it very throughly with duct tape, and store it in a cool, dark place until ready for the next season. I haven’t kept frames treated this way for longer than a few months, but it seems to be widely accepted if you know your colonies. ---
**Author:** ![Petergw10](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/petergw10/32/16050_2.png) [@Petergw10](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Petergw10)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/52 "2017-01-30T04:55:02Z")
You are an abundance of knowledge! Thank you I will most certainly be looking for a local expert ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/53 "2017-01-30T04:55:55Z")
Maybe I am just an abundance of opinions… Like most beekeepers! 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_Nickel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/gerald_nickel/32/1910_2.png) [@Gerald\_Nickel](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Gerald_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:17am UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/54 "2017-01-30T07:17:23Z")
Dawn, your an amazing BOTH ! This weekend I took Beekeeping 101 again. I enjoy review n our instructor adds new info each time. Our instructor Danny Najera is also my mentor as well as professor of (insect biology) n head of their beekeeping class n research program. I’m a lucky dude I think. He keeps track of my Maple Hive via a 3G network. ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/0/0aab75f70fa01fff5c375a77639c9d0e0d09ab06.jpg) ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/a/a886d337b757984e64a1f0e84bba6a0349632e37.jpg) ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/0/0bab95cd7dc5e3fe9e413d950d7d8a091b50b506.jpg) ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/3/3f0c6ca4190b92fd932c89d5b0315985408927e5.jpg). This last week we’ve end up with few days of Puget Sound mildness (mid 40’s up to the mid 50’s)… They started with poop flights then I saw the side to side wider n wider n upward orientation flight of new foragers coming out for two days. Now I’ve seen my bees with raincoats n ear muffs out gathering ivory colored pollens from our local hazel nut bushes in the nearby forests. Today I popped in both winter n pollen patties… Way to chilly for liquid diet up here yet but looking that the hive data temps the queen is active ! ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/b/bc529e6e9771e6ed061f668cf48a965d05722a68.jpg) ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/6/6bd54bdb1e913e99358416caabcb727da99ccd97.jpg) ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/3/3f0c6ca4190b92fd932c89d5b0315985408927e5.jpg) ![](https://cdck-file-uploads-us1.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/c/ca09421409a675e53e4f8eb2b940aa07ecb1c140.jpg) Got to head for the feathers now … Cheers n have a great week ahead. Jerry ---
**Author:** ![Dee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dee/32/5840_2.png) [@Dee](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dee)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/55 "2017-01-30T12:53:54Z")
Yes varroa. Perforated brood cappings Half emerged bees with proboscis protruding Guanine deposits at tops of empty brooded celks. All diagnostic The reason you have starved bees head down is that the cluster got so small it got isolated from its food So sorry for you and the bees Everybody else suggesting you monitor more regularly is spot on. Don’t believe your bees can survive varroa just because the breeder says so is my general advice. Monitor and see for yoursrlf ---
**Author:** ![Anon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@Anon](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Anon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/56 "2017-01-30T13:02:41Z")
I use powdered sugar if I know I’m going to treat regardless of the result. It may show all, none, or somewhere in between the number of mites, depending on humidity level. If I see mites with a powdered sugar roll, I’ve got mites…lots of mites. Alcohol washing will show all the mites. All the bees tested will die. I look at it this way though, all those same bees will be dead within 6 weeks anyway, and because of their sacrifice, the whole hive has a better chance at survival. Hey, it’s actually more natural; bees will gladly die defending the hive! I’ve got the stings to prove it! lol ---
**Author:** ![ianumeda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/ianumeda/32/6661_2.png) [@ianumeda](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/ianumeda)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/57 "2017-01-30T13:46:40Z")
As I understand it dead bees facing into the cells is either starvation, which seems unlikely here, or they’re bees that died while they were trying to warm the cluster from within the cells. ---
**Author:** ![Dee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dee/32/5840_2.png) [@Dee](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dee)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/58 "2017-01-30T17:56:21Z")
Look at the dead bees on the floor. The hive was not lost from starvation. There is food in the box. The colony got so small it couldn’t keep warm enough to move to the next frame where there was food. A dead out due to starvation will show frames of bees head down ---
**Author:** ![Plutoman15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/plutoman15/32/5739_2.png) [@Plutoman15](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Plutoman15)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/59 "2017-02-25T19:43:50Z")
I think I almost lost a hive. I inspected the hives today and the one that I noticed had fewer bees, had a pile of dead bees on the bottom. They seem healthy and busy and they are raising brood now. Still an ok amount of bees I think. I treated with OA a few weeks ago. I think I will treat again within the week or so. I am thinking I treated just in time. The pile of bees explains why I did not see an increase in dead mites on the bottom board when I treated like the other hives. They probably just piled on top. I packed them down to 1 box since the bottom box was just empty comb. It will get requeened in May. The other possibility is that when I moved the hives and put them in a different order last week in a new location 150 yards away, a group of bees got mixed up and went into the wrong hive and had a battle. But I lean toward mites. ---
**Author:** ![Eva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@Eva](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Eva)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/60 "2017-02-26T14:09:30Z")
Wow, glad you caught that! Hope the colony keeps growing & stays healthy just this close to real spring. I say real spring because here in my corner of PA we have crocuses, maples & other pollen sources in bloom already after an unseasonably warm week or so. Today it’s very windy & much colder, with below freezing & snow in the forecast this week. So, all that pollen out & bees have to go back into cluster 😲 ---
**Author:** ![Kirsten\_Redlich](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/kirsten_redlich/32/5093_2.png) [@Kirsten\_Redlich](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Kirsten_Redlich)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/61 "2017-04-18T15:09:15Z")
@Dee any pics please? ---
**Author:** ![Dee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dee/32/5840_2.png) [@Dee](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dee)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/62 "2017-04-18T19:14:57Z")
Of what, please… ---
**Author:** ![Dawn\_SD](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dawn_sd/32/15954_2.png) [@Dawn\_SD](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dawn_SD)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/63 "2017-04-18T19:20:38Z")
She was referring to: > [@Dee](#): > > I make my floors with an entrance under the hive > It makes the colony wasp proof 😉 I know you are camera-shy. I am too. But this time, it was not a photo of you that was requested. 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Dee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dee/32/5840_2.png) [@Dee](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dee)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/64 "2017-04-18T20:36:34Z")
Will do tomorrow … ---
**Author:** ![Kirsten\_Redlich](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/kirsten_redlich/32/5093_2.png) [@Kirsten\_Redlich](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Kirsten_Redlich)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/65 "2017-04-19T13:31:07Z")
Thanks Dawn because i couldn’t quite remember myself…this is what happens when you post things at 1 or 2 in the morning… ---
**Author:** ![Dee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dee/32/5840_2.png) [@Dee](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dee)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/66 "2017-04-19T19:10:08Z")
> [@Kirsten\_Redlich](#): > > @Dee any pics please? You have to remember that these floors are for National hives so are square. There is a shelf a couple of inches underneath for varroa monitoring. My mesh floors are open all year. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/1/14b06f526b5b4612958f1aeca2413917ef706559.JPG) ``` This is the view from the top as the bees see it. The slot on the left is bee space width. ``` ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/0/0461c4f72a28fe0159236dc9b6cdbfc186cf3d69.JPG) A closer view ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/honeyflow/original/2X/7/793cb9286dfb473f3385e7c21c533da02b16d514.JPG) From the front. The gap is about 3 inches ---
**Author:** ![Kirsten\_Redlich](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/kirsten_redlich/32/5093_2.png) [@Kirsten\_Redlich](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Kirsten_Redlich)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/67 "2017-04-20T12:01:46Z")
Thanks Dee I think it’s a good idea. Have you noticed any difference compared to ‘normal’ entrance & do you use this all year round as well? ---
**Author:** ![Dee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.honeyflow.com/dee/32/5840_2.png) [@Dee](https://forum.honeyflow.com/u/Dee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771/68 "2017-04-20T17:14:01Z")
Yes all year. Don’t need a mouseguard and don’t need any wasp control. Normal entrances need to be reduced in wasp season but I must admit I have never lost a colony to wasps as I make sure they are all strong at that time of year [Previous page](https://forum.honeyflow.com/t/winter-deadouts-ball-ground-ga-usa/9771.md?page=2)