Hi Beeks,
New beekeeper here. I have two Flow Hive 2 bee hives. I bought two nucs and installed them 4 days ago. I have been told by our local bee assoc. that the 8 frame brood box (most use 10 frame here) will not be enough space for our subtropical environment here in Florida, USA because the potential to swarm will be greater. So I bought two extra brood boxes. Winter is coming to an end (it was a extra warm winter this year) here in FL and the bees are bringing in lots of pollen/nectar already so should l add the super when brood box one is full and later in the season (June/July) add the extra brood box when the super is filling up? And do I add the second brood (well, I guess it would be called a super if its above the queen excluder) box above or below the flow super? Thanks in advance for your advice!
I would add the second brood box first, and let them fill it. Then put the queen excluder and super on top of both brood boxes, once it is 80% full and every frame is completely covered with bees.
I’m in a sub-tropical climate here in Australia and using 8 frame single brood hives and happy with that choice but I am also very proactive in my hive management and do preemptive slits at the very beginning of Spring.
When I was in a colder climate a double brood hive was the norm but it makes a hive a lot more manageable if a single brood box is an option.
Swarming is a natural thing that honey bees do to expand and it will happen no matter how much space they have eventually they will swarm. Sure by adding extra space will put that day back but a better option in my opinion is to do Spring splits and concentrate on hive management.
Cheers
Happy belated Cake Day, Peter!
Thank you for your advice. They have built 6 and a half frames so far. Cant wait to put on the super. Hopefully soon!
Don’t add the super till all of the frames in the brood box are in use for brood and stores, all of the frames are covered with bees and the hive is really active and needing extra room. A super put on too early can set a hive backwards.
If your climate is mild I wouldn’t use a second brood box, a single brood box keeps the hive simple and much more manageable.
Cheers
@Dawn_SD Reviving this old post for a bit of clarification.
I’m a 1st year beekeeper in Northern California and plan to add a 2nd 8 frame deep brood box following the 80% rule.
The first brood box has 1 frame of waxed plastic foundation and 7 foundationless frames and the comb has been perfectly straight so far (knock on wood).
I’ve seen you recommend placing the 2nd box below the first for heat reasons. Would you put all empty foundationless frames below in the new box, or mix in some drawn comb from the original box?
Our pollen flow is already high and the nectar flow runs May-July in my area. The low temp at night is around 50 degrees at this point in the spring.
Thanks in advance!
Hello and welcome to the Flow forum!
I generally nadir (put the empty box below the current one) if the colony isn’t quite ready for it, and I am going to be away for a while. Otherwise I prefer putting it on top for ease of inspecting and correcting (if needed) the new comb.
Personally I am not a fan of foundationless, so I would put fresh foundation or drawn comb in the new box. However, I would not take frames of food or brood from the first box, and “checkerboard” it into the new box unless the colony was amazingly strong and at risk of swarming. It is very disruptive to the colony when you move frames around, and can set them back by quite a few weeks unless there is a good reason for doing it. 
Hope that clarifies a bit. Please ask if you need to know more. 
Another consideration for not checker boarding at this point in time would be your cool night time temps. Keeping the brood together makes it easier to keep the brood at the correct temperature while the nights are still cold. I’m also not a fan of foundationless frames.
Hi JeffH! I am so pleased to see your comments about putting the 2nd new brood box beneath the full first box in cooler temperatures! I have been struggling with this idea with my late swarm which I installed as a NUC in March in mid autumn (here in the southern hemisphere Flinders Victoria Australia). I fed the colony on sugar syrup with a dribble of lemon juice to help them settle in and the colony grew in leaps and bounds. I kept up feeding them intermittently when plants and trees in our area seemed scant and recently during winter have been giving them a supplementary feed of about 2 cups of white sugar syrup with just enough boiled hot water to dissolve it and serve it blood temperature warm. They have amazed me and have been out foraging every day (bar 2 when it was raining and below 6 degrees centigrade during the day) some days more active than others, and have now reached a point where all the frames in the first box are full and it is chock a block full with bees. I can see them even at night time when I peer in the entrance with a torch and when I add feed in the roof it is full of bees. Even now (early August) when the daily temperatures are quite low 10 - 14 degrees (40 to mid 50’s F) as soon as it is clear and especially with the slightest bit of sunshine they are racing out of the hive foraging and bringing back pollen (about 2/5 bees have pollen baskets). I was thinking they need more room sooner (mid August) rather than later (by September our temperatures rise to 17 to mid 20’s (Your 70’s F) - but did not want to chill them by putting cold space on top - so the idea of allowing them more room beneath sounds perfect. I also like the idea of leaving them to tackle the extra frames or not as they see fit - and not fiddling with their current arrangement . I will put in waxed frames to help them along. And with this approach, they and their queen can just continue in the original box in the top of the hive nice and warm. PERFECT!! Thanks so much. I have written my thoughts in detail to give the full picture of my hives circumstances - and would really welcome your comments, tips and observations on any other things I should consider, or things I may have got wrong. Kind regards, Regina
Hi Dawn_SD!! I wrote a long reply below to another Forum member who also commented about adding on the bottom - but would like to thank you too for your suggestion of adding a second brood box below the first full box if the weather is still cold making adding on the top a bit risky. My late autumn NUC bees expanded their colony so much over winter when I was not expecting them to - so this is a really great solution. I think they will need the space sooner than normally would be done. I am planning to allow the colony to become a really strong 2 brood box unit before I add the Queen excluder and Flow Honey Super. And although I have been feeding them this time round from being a late NUC through winter, I am expecting they won’t need it so much next season as they will have had a chance to build up their own proper honey resources. Any comments/suggestions would be most welcome. Kind regards, Regina
PS Hi JeffH - forgot to say at present (early August) they are demolishing their 2 cups of feed which I replenish in the roof every day. I have a lino lid on top of the frames with bee space round the edges plus the lid with a small hole so they can come up to keep the warmth in place and have the manoeuvre down pat done and dusted in a few seconds. I also don’t plan to do this next season - this is just me being a new beekeeper and very keen to make sure being a late NUC, that they survive their first winter. I am hoping next year they will be a strong double brood box and will have built up enough proper honey stores to largely take care of them selves through winter - with the odd feed here and there in a dearth. Thanks again. Regina
I don’t see any problems with your plan. The only thing to remember is that the current brood box will be very heavy, so nadiring a new box may require 2 people to lift the old box. That is the main reason that I don’t routinely nadir a second brood box. Otherwise, it can be an excellent technique.
Hi Regina, you must be confusing me with someone else. I’m also in Aus., on the Sunshine Coast. I only use single brood boxes. I focus on managing single brood boxes & swarm prevention techniques.
Your plan sounds great, except you probably underestimate your bees ability to build up during spring. You need to factor in that your colony will want to swarm at some point.
cheers
Thank you Dawn_SD for the encouragement and tips. Will ask a friend to help me lift the box when I do it. Had not thought of that. You have helped me avoid a potential disaster - having visions of getting stuck half way does not bear thinking about!! Oh dear. And the term “Nadiring”. Will remember that. Warm regards and thanks again for your advice. Regina
Make sure to use your hive tool. The propolis is really sticky. It can lift up all together if you don’t break the seal all the way around.
Thank you JeffH for your advice. Yes I looked at your profile after I wrote my message to see you are in Queensland. So many Flow Hive people are overseas in the northern hemisphere - I misunderstood your location - and see you have about 50 Langstroth hives and 30 years wealth of experience to go with it. I will definitely keep an eye on how they build up. I spent some time over past months putting together a mix of frames (wired with foundation and the Flow timber strip starter ones) building, painting and airing an extra hive, some deeps and a spare NUC box so I am set up ready to do a split when needed. I also made a swarm catch pole with bamboo and a large bucket and am putting together a swarm catching kit (large white sheet, secateurs, lopper, gaffa tape) in case I have to hare off down the street after my beautiful queens and their entourage. Any tips on other useful preparations would be great. Thanks again for getting back to me. Much appreciated. Kind regards, Regina
Thank you Fred for the tip re the propolis and making sure I use the hive tool - another potential disaster averted!! Kind regards, Regina
You’re welcome Regina, hopefully you wont need your swarm catching kit, unless you’re chasing someone else’s bees.
In using single brood boxes, I find it much easier to manage a hive & prevent swarms by doing preemptive swarm control splits. That is I’m splitting a colony before it starts preparing to swarm. Don’t be worried about doing it too early during the early spring, because the colony will quickly recover. Plus in this case, it’s better to be too early than too late.
I split a hive this morning because the honey super looked to be full of bees. I removed 5 brood frames plus 2 honey frames out of the brood box, leaving just 2 brood frames plus 7 fully drawn stickies & all of the bees. Four of the brood frames were fully sealed up to the top bars, the fifth one was brood in all stages. I donated them, one per hive to weaker colonies. Splitting that colony will buy me some time, at least for that colony.
Thank you JeffH for your further comments and descriptions of how you split one of your hives yesterday. Very helpful and informative. I see your weather on the Sunshine Coast is around 18 to 20 degrees most days at the moment. We are still in the 11 to 14 degree max range - equivalent to your coolest evening temps, lucky you - but from previous years weather forecasts we should reach higher numbers in another few weeks. I will wait for the first sunny day here close to 20 degrees and follow your advice on sooner rather than later. Kind regards, Regina