Interesting Jeff. I saw those styrofoam hives (and similar plastic ones) and my head tells me they are extremely functional, but my heart tells me they’e ugly. There is something quaint about a timber hive which I like.
I think with the number of hives you have, you are in a position where you can experiment and get a meaningful result. What about covering say five hives with polystyrene for a whole year and see whether you see any difference compared to hives in same position without the added insulation.
Polystyrene is sometimes given away for free on Gumtree. Some years ago a gave away stacks of large flat sheets.
I was thinking of making a jacket out of windscreen visors.
Styros generally only come in 10 frame sizes here, but I went ahead and bought two a couple years ago because our early contributor the venerable Dee from Wales UK pretty much exclusively uses them, and because of the logic mentioned before in this thread.
I cut down the fronts & backs to make them into 8 frames, and the one colony waxed my Flow frames for me…but both died that winter. I confess I haven’t put them back in use again - although you can sit wood boxes on them, they overhang a bottom board and then you have a hard time not gouging the styro when levering off the super. So, I’d recommend getting the whole kit and sticking with it if you wanted to try them.
@Numbatino, not sure what bottom board do you have at the moment, but if it is not ventilated, buying a new or modifying current one could be a simpler approach. Unless woodworking is another hobby of yours
Here is a temperature graph from my place for the last week:
Yet I observe minimal bearding at one of the hives. Second does not beard at all. Vegetation around provide some shading after 2-3pm.
I use Apimaye type G bottom board like this:
It has tray at the bottom that I remove when day temperatures start to approach 30 degrees C. So far it looks like my bees are quite happy with having grating instead of solid floor under them.
I haven’t seen such boards for 8 frame hives but I thing wooden board could be modified by cutting window in it and screening the window with steel mesh with cells large enough for usual hive rubbish passing through but keeping bees inside and miсe outside.
Thanks mate. I saw those plastic Apimaye hives at Beewise. My bottom board is the bog standard Flow issue, with a ventilated screen, and corflute slider. We had similar temps to you, if not slightly higher.
I have about 25 EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) hives. When you are talking about insulation some seem to refer to R values. If you go by those numbers the Poly hives I use are about 5 times better insulators than a standard 22mm wooden hive.
I never see bearding on any of my poly hives.
In terms of honey production, there are so many variables that can affect a honey yield that you would have to run multiple hives in the same location (wooden and EPS) to start to get an idea on production difference. I have heard 30% as well.
It makes sense though that if the bees are putting less energy and time into managing the hive temperature then they will be doing something else useful.
That is impressive, and expected. Do you know the R-value? The R-value of pine is about 1.41 per inch (2.54 cm). So a 19mm pine hive wall is about R 1.05.
The only objection I have is a frivolous one - their look.
I will see how I can increase insulation on the sides too, while keeping them looking good.
I find these EPS hives quite interesting too. But what makes me dubious is their longevity. Is it any good? I mean how well do they sustain prying, moving around? Do you see any disadvantages in them at all?
Glue the EPS on your hive as if it were a jacket? There are a number of places around Perth that can provide EPS and other alternatives. They also custom cut it. It isn’t that expensive either.
R-value is 7.9.
They need to be painted so they look as exciting or as plain as you want them to! I give some boxes to our hive hosts and they love to paint all sorts of decorative stuff on them.
As long as you paint them every 10 or so years there is no reason why they won’t last.
The high density EPS these hives are made of seem fairly robust. They have built in handles that can be used to pry apart boxes (I never have to use my hive tool to crack the seal). I had a triple hive drop from a height of about 1.5 metres on to concrete and the top box cracked down one side (but it held together). When I finally got the chance to clear the bees from it, I just squirted some wood glue in the gap, re-pressed it together and it was good to go.
In short, no I don’t see any disadvantages, in fact there are many advantages over wooden hives imo.
They are however a bit more expensive.
My strongest hive this spring gave me 20 frames of honey (started with undrawn foundation) and three splits. Of course my weakest hive did not
Thank you. Very interesting information. I thought they would be more fragile. Like packaging EPS - any pressure and it breaks. But seems they made from denser material.
I’m not sure about permanently gluing them. It would be a big mess if you want to take them off for some reason or maintenance. But a wrap around jacket is easy enough to make.
I still have an issue with their appearance, even if painted. Cork would be nice, but expensive.
And @JeffH@BayoNat I have spoken to the sellers of the Lyton and the Paradise hives in Australia, both the WWW sites are hopeless but got some insight by talking to them. Both say they are 6 to 9 time better insulation than 22mm wooden hives and their boxes are 40mm thickness so a complete hive has to be bought so that everything interlocks together. Weight is 6 kg’s for a triple, roof and base. The minus is that once the internal of the hive over heats it retains the heat due to the insulation.
As I have already got Langstroth 8 frame hives and the 4 Flow hives I guess adding the polystyrene hives won’t be that big an issue. They are actually 9 frame hives but the outside measurements are close to a Langstroth 10 frame hive. The poly hives have to be painted for protecting the bees from UV rays, I figure painted whit like the rest of my hives they wouldn’t look any different and be much better in my climate for the bees. Thinking it is going to be yet another experiment for me.
Cheers
I’ve been seeing a lot of new plastic hives on the market. My default position is always against plastic.
However, I will be spending some of my Christmas holidays painting, and patching some spare wooden hive ware, and made me think about this.
It’s not just boring, but time consuming, and expensive task. Paint one side, dry, turn, paint other side, patch, sand, paint again, and again…
From an environmental point of view, if the plastic hives can be made out of recycled materials, and being themselves recyclable at the end of their life, the plastic ones will be by far the superior choice.
The wooden ones, once painted or CuNap treated are not recyclable at the end of their life, and you have to cut trees to make them. Add to that the maintenance free and far superior insulating properties of the plastic ones, and it is a no brainer.
The way I read it, Peter’s talking about poly hives. The plastic hives I’ve seen don’t look like they’d offer much insulation qualities. I think 22mm wood would have better insulation.
You make a good point about not being able to recycle treated timber. I’m lucky my old fence was untreated hardwood. It’s making beautiful fire wood.
The treated hive supers don’t really have an end of life. You just keep using them. Maybe a coat of paint every 10-15 years, that’s about it.
Polystyrene is not easy to recycle. The ones I saw, Apimaye, are made from food grade plastic and highly insulated, far better than wood. How the insulation is achieved I do not know. It could be moulded from same material, or polystyrene inserts, or something else.
I’m not going to ditch my wooden hives anytime soon, but interesting advances nonetheless.
Apimaye hives look good. It’s the likes of Nuplas and Parker Engineering plastic hives I was talking about. They don’t appear to offer good insulation qualities.
Depends on how one looks at it. Plastic is made from non-renewable source - oil. Wood, if coming from plantation, no only a renewable but also captures carbon
