Converting to a horizontal hive

Oh. My. God.

I think I’ve just found my next Christmas present. @Dawn_SD I TOTALLY see what you mean. This is a hive to die for indeed!!!

Have just sent this to my husband and informed him that if he can’t make this happen, I’m finding myself a new husband :smiling_imp:

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don’t joke… you do know I need a wife?:kissing_closed_eyes:

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Wow! Did ir work? …

I still think this is a really impressive and well thought out horizontal hive, love it.

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You can certainly make it part medium and part deeps, but you will need communication to get the bees to easily use the super. I would not just put a flow hive super on the end with a wall between the bees and the super (and I assume some communication at the bottom). I would build the entire box as one long box and put the frames in that box.

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These people make some pretty hives, but they’re in Australia…

Michael, what do you think about having flow hives at each end of the long hive with the “brood” in the middle - this would be like a normal vertical hive where the brood is central and the tucker on the edges? - Can still block off one end with end board during winter?

As long as you remember to block off the ends during winter. I would try to keep them out of all of the flow frames in winter in my location because I don’t want the cluster to end up there at the end of winter and the queen has no where to lay. In a warmer climate it might not matter.

@Michael_Bush, thank you as always for your guidance! I know that the main reason you converted to all-mediums was the weight, but that there were secondary considerations (easier to keep the brood warm?)

Living in San Francisco, with mild winters, when converting to a horizontal hive, we can do either mediums or deeps, as we have a dummy bottom board for the mediums.

Now that weight is no longer an issue, how important are the secondary benefits of medium frames vs convenience of (I assume) fewer frames / shorter hive if we go with all deeps? (in San Francisco, winters are mild but space is scarce!)

Many thanks as always
Olivia

If I were only using horizontal hives, I would probably do all deeps and have some five frame boxes for harvesting. You don’t have winter in San Francisco. I do think eight frame mediums winter better than ten frame deeps. but horizontal changes a lot of those dynamics anyway, and you really never have what we would call winter. Your cold weather is like our late spring weather… Our early spring weather is colder than your winter…

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What do you mean we have no winter? I’ve once seen the temperature drop below 50! :wink:

Thank you very much, that settles it - we’ll go for all deeps, 24 deep frames + 6 Flow frames. We’ll probably add a shredded cedar quilt on top for the humidity, and lots of observation windows to keep the beekeeper from bothering the bees too often.

I’d been wondering after seeing the Layens hive just how big to make those frames, but since we’re going foundationless I think I’ll stick to Langstrotfor. The advantage in space gained isn’t worth the increased risk of my clumsiness mishandling such big slabs of comb!!

I rest my case. (Useless padding to get to 20 characters)

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Olivia,
Have you thought about having the deep frames running “front to back” and the flow frames running left to right? I am toying with the idea in the hope that it gives the bees better incentive to fill the flow frames. I was thinking of 6 flows at each end with 30 deeps in the middle (+ false ends to reduce during winter) I am in Adelaide in south Australia and we have less of a winter than you guys​:sneezing_face::sunglasses:

I am indeed considering that! Was planning 24 deep frames with 6 flow frames running perpendicular.

I am at planning stage and expect to build over my winter (June July aug) I am however confused as to what to do at the bottom ie, do I have a 6 mm gap from bottom of frames to mesh floor and then corflute below that? I am concerned that corflute will be too " fragile " for the length of the hive - your thoughts? Then if I have to pull out corflute to inspect/ clean where do I put the legs? Because I want to harvest flows from the ends!
This started out as a very simple exercise as I drank my coffee and watched my bees, however it Is possible this thing has a life of its own and will have more floor space than your pentagon!!! I have yet o figure out placement of the pool😃

With my long hive I designed it with a base similar to the flow base. I have a divider in the middle though and two pull out trays beneath a screened bottom. This also incorporates the tilt requirement for flow frames…

Can I ask you both why you are planning on so many frames? My plan calls for 4 flow frames and around 16 regular. I’m hoping that will be enough for both brood and honey (with a moving vertical excluder you can place regular frames alongside the flow frames to produce honeycomb- and rotate regular frames out of the hive).

One thing before you guys get too far into your plans: maybe wait and see if mine works- to date as far as I have seen no one has used flow frames in a long hive and proved the concept- (please post here if you are reading and have done it or seen it). It seems @Schnucki had problems? His hive seemed perfect in theory…

I will have mine running in a week or so and hope I can see if the bees take to it before winter sets in

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Michelle, there is no science in my 30 + 12 frames, but you are hoping yours is big enough, I can actually make mine smaller if it is too big or turn it into two horizontal. Am really keen to hear how you go and would appreciate you keeping me up with the news. I will not be building until winter and hopefully populating in spring. Are you intending to have both flow and deeps running " back to front" or will your flows run longitudinal?
Jeff

I have all the frames running the same way- one reason is - it’s a lot easier! Just one long box with normal rebates cut the length of the box. Another reason- it means your queen excluder can move around- meaning you can rotate frames to the honey only side- any brood can hatch and when it’s full of honey you can remove it…

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My thinking is ( no science) is that it will be easier for bees to access all flows if longitudinal. You have qx at back of flows, not at side of flows. You are right, if they all face same way it will be easier and you may be right, it may be more attractive for bees but hey! That is the fun, I am more interested in pollination in my neighbourhood than honey, the honey is a bonus. PS I do not sell honey but doing a roaring trade swapping for tomato,chillies,venison,lemons. If I can get someone to mow my lawn I will be set

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Dadant’s book has an interesting paragraph on long hives / side storage which may be relevant to the conversation:

In a former chapter, we mentioned very wide hives, with side storage, under what is now termed “the long idea” system. Such hives are used in a number of localities, but the very deep hives are better suited to this method. So the most persistent system of side storage is followed with the De Layens hive, containing as many as 20 or more frames, 12 or 13 inches deep or nearly square. The difficulty is that the queen is at liberty to roam from one comb to another and may have a little brood in most of the frames. Then the honey is difficult to extract. We even tried section boxes and storage boxes in the sides of those hives. The bees prefer to place their honey close to the brood and as much as possible above it. This side storage proved inacceptable, whether in frames or sections.

From ‘Dadant system of beekeeping’ published 1920, page 26.