My wife (Navah) and I (Bryan) are kind of accidental beekeepers. We’ve always wanted bees and then last week they swarmed into our lives. We love stepping into this role but need help! We know it’s late in the season here in upstate NY so we want to help give them a shot at surviving winter. Here is what has happened to date:
We had a swarm last Monday 9/9/24 and we gave them a temp home in cardboard box
After they decided to stay we transferred them to a proper hivebox the following day 9/11/24.
We only had 8 deep trays so the upper was empty. We ordered short trays for the upper.
Short trays arrived and we assembled the trays 9/14/24
We were advised to build the hive box properly and to remove any comb they started to build. Last night (9/15) after they calmed down we added the short trays to the upper. It felt wrong to remove the comb they made but we were told that this is best for long run.
There was honey in the comb so we jarred it and will feed it to them since we are giving them supplemental food to help them build.
This morning at 7:45a we checked on them and there were large amounts of bees bunched outside the entrance and front (bearding?). Should we be concerned? Is there any action to take? The temp isn’t hot so are they just making space to build? Could the Queen be dead? We were very careful while moving them from comb back to box last night but we don’t know for sure and like I said, we are noobs.
Any guidance on what to do is GREATLY APPRECIATED! Thank you all.
Hi newbeeks and welcome to the forum! The bees deciding to cluster outside your new hive seems like a prelude to taking off again. I’m surprised and sorry to hear of the advice you got to remove their freshly built comb, because that may be the reason they have decided to skip town. I appreciate that you felt it was wrong, this kind of judgment will serve you well as you gather knowledge going forward.
The best way to get them to stay is to find a local beekeeper willing to sell you a frame (not ‘tray’) of open brood (eggs and young larvae) from one of their healthy colonies. With lowering temps it would be best to leave all the nurse bees on it to shield the brood from cold air during transport. Place this frame in the middle of the lower (brood) box and then you will likely see this cluster move back in in short order.
Don’t put the upper box (super) back on - with fall approaching it will be unlikely for these bees to fill even the brood box before cold weather sets in. Provide some 5/3 sugar water to feed them and reduce the entrance. If they stay, monitor the feed and re-up as needed. If all goes well you will switch to a winter patty or fondant once daytime temps are in the 50s. Check on their progress with comb building and see if you can tell whether there’s a laying queen in there. You will probably need to get hold of some dummy boards or other filler to replace empty frames so they can stay warm enough through winter, plus insulation.
Please let us know how you make out, so we can advise what steps to take depending on what happens. Good luck!!
Thank you for your response and support Eva. There are less bees outside this morning and while they are not on the sides they are congregating on the bottom. Hoping they choose to go back in. We haven’t had luck finding any frames, we’ve tried. We’ve refilled their supplemental sugar water. They still seem busy at work so hopefully weather will be in their favor to build what they need before the cold rolls in. We will monitor their progress. We plan on insulating and I’ll look into the winter patty/fondant. Thanks for the support!!
Best, Bryan
A little update. The swarm that was under the hivebox went back into the hive today. They left behind some comb down there. Any suggestions on what this means and what we should do? Since we disturbed them while getting them into their hive box we are trying not to bother them by inspecting the hive. That said, we don’t know if they’ve filled the brood box and upper with comb and honey/brood. We are wondering if they were crowded in the box and that’s why they bearded on the bottom? Do we need to add another upper box? I know it’s late in the season but they seem incredibly productive. Any help is appreciated!!
It’s not likely that they could fill that amount of space in such a short time. Glad they all went in and I realize now that as you speculated in your original post, the bees were hanging out outside because there was simply not enough surface area inside until some comb was built. Sorry to be alarmist about them possibly leaving - this has been known to happen though.
However, I still stand by my advice to take off the super (the correct term for what you’re referring to as the upper ). It’s not at all likely they could fill all that space in the remaining warm days with forage disappearing in our region as fall approaches. Also, what you want now is for them to build out - not up. If they have upper space to go to, you risk having lots of open side space which will be drafty in winter and awkward to address when it’s time to prepare. Keep in mind that colonies will radically slow down brood rearing in areas with cold winters in the next couple of weeks. What you want by then is a mostly-full single deep box that they can cluster in the center of, and is compact and easy for them to keep warm and easy for you to insulate.
Removing the super will disrupt them somewhat, but should be done asap. When you do it you could try taking a quick peek down between the frames to check how many are being worked and get a rough idea of the rate of their progress. I don’t think it’s worth further setback to lift out any frames, and new comb is incredibly fragile & prone to being crushed or broken when even just a little bumped during inspection.
Now is a good time to order winter patties, dummy boards (these will prob be needed this season but if not will come in handy someday) and choose your insulation method.
). It’s not at all likely they could fill all that space in the remaining warm days with forage disappearing in our region as fall approaches. Also, what you want now is for them to build out - not up. If they have upper space to go to, you risk having lots of open side space which will be drafty in winter and awkward to address when it’s time to prepare. Keep in mind that colonies will radically slow down brood rearing in areas with cold winters in the next couple of weeks. What you want by then is a mostly-full single deep box that they can cluster in the center of, and is compact and easy for them to keep warm and easy for you to insulate.