@Michael_Bush, do I understand correctly that optimal spacing is 9 frames in the brood box, but 8 frames in the honey boxes?
Also: since modifying frames to fit 9-in-8, we’ve had a harder time lifting the frames out for inspection (clumsy fingers + propolis maybe?)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated- thanks as always!!!
You can put six drawn combs in an eight frame honey super evenly spaced.
Frames get harder to get out as they get more propolized as they get older. To get frames out of any box, you need to make space first. Usually I pull an end frame out first as they are least likely to be finished and are likely to have the least bees on them. The first step is to push all the frames to one side, then pull the end frame back over into the space that made and pull it out. Then you can make a space anywhere and pull any frame out after you make more space. The problem with less frames is that the frames get made fatter and more uneven making it even harder.
When figuring the logical width of a box for a given number of standard width frames, you take the number of frames * 35mm + one beespace (9.5mm) + some extra room for manipulation. You are correct that a standard (if you can call a range of 1/4" a standard) eight frame box has too much extra space. To be the same extra space as a ten frame langstroth it would be (35mm * 8) + 9.5mm + 16mm = 305.5mm or 12 inches inside which would be 1/4" smaller (6.5mm or so) than a 13 3/4" (349mm) eight frame box and 1/2" (13mm ) smaller than a 14" (356mm) eight frame box.
The key here is ‘drawn combs’, you aren’t going to get the same result if you place undrawn comb or foundationless comb in a box spaced like this.
Yes. Every word I put in, is there for a reason…
@Michael_Bush For me reading this it was obvious, but to a new beekeeper I think this subtlety could be easily missed, which is why I brought attention to it.
I didn’t intend it as a criticism. I just wanted to point out that every word is important. If I say “between to brood combs” you should not imply that also means between two honey combs or between two foundation etc. Every word is there for a reason.
You might get away with putting 6 drawn combs in a standard 8 frame super evenly spaced. I doubt if you’d get away with that in an 8 frame Flow super evenly spaced, considering you can fit 9 frames in at a squeeze. It would almost be like trying to put 7 fully drawn combs in a 10 frame honey super evenly spaced. However it’s a good way to get fat impressive frames of honey.
With this topic in mind, I decided to put my strategy into video form, here it is.
I have seen @JeffH mention the propolis marks several times now so couldn’t help but think of @JeffH when I saw this when I was packing down a hive.
I captured a photo to make explaining easier in future!
My bees have been very helpful making spacing markers…
I’m just new to beekeeping, and looking at setting up a hive in the coming months (ready for Spring here in Oz). I prefer to start things off how I want to continue them, and the idea of 9 frames in these 8 frame flow brood boxes seems fair due to their extra space. I’m really enjoying your site @Michael_Bush, and obviously, I have plenty to learn.
My question - would we need to trim the top bar of the frames to allow for extra bee space - I read above that here is adequate by 0.5mm, is a bit extra there better? Also, in Brisbane or other warmer all year round climates, will squeezing this extra frame in create a bigger problem for heat buildup in the hive? I see you leave extra space in your 10 frame boxes @JeffH
Thanks
Hi Kurt, I’m in Buderim, I believe that the extra spacing in our climate helps the bees to air condition the hive better plus gives them more room to chase beetles. I use solid floors also. I don’t seem to get the bearding during hot weather that others get.
I have never shaved the top bars. It’s just too much work. If I were making them from scratch I would make them slightly narrower, but I’m not. I think we are almost always mistaken about what helps with small hive beetles. The bees need to corral them. They don’t need space to do that.
