G'day - Fred from Perth

Hi Jeff, I noticed the splayed legs too but can’t see her thorax as being much more prominent than some of the others (there are a couple bottom left). Sometimes the angle in the photo can mislead though.

As I never saw a young queen before, do they become more “queen-like” as they age?

I do not think that “splayed legs” is a diagnostic characteristic of queens. I just had a look at my hives and I had a few bees hanging out on the sides, some with splayed legs. Or am I wrong?

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Hi Olly, if you look at her thorax, the “bald patch” on top is larger than that of the other bees. A couple of other bees in that photo near the right bottom corner are newly emerged bees because you can see the top of the thorax is covered with hair. No matter how hard I look, I can’t see any stripes on the abdomen of the bee in question. Plus her abdomen appears to be way longer than her wings compared to the rest of the bees. Take another look at the “bald patch”, it certainly is more prominent to my eyes.
cheers

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@Semaphore, you didn’t seem to be around 6 days ago when this photo appeared.


It would be interesting to know what you or your friend thinks.
cheers

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I’ll ask Vicky… last time we had one like this and you said you thought it was a queen- she said- "uhm, no- I’d bet it isn’t’… for what its worth that bee does look more like a newly emerged worker to me? Though not being able to see her rear end so well I could be wrong. Its the elongated pointed butt that really gives them away- and that bee does have it’s legs splayed out as you say.

Whilst I was in Sydney early this month we looked into a hive that had just swarmed (which was very odd for the time of year). When we inspected the brood it looked just like a hive in spring swarm season- one frame had like 6 queen cells on it- and one queen emerged there and then. She was so distinctly like a queen- very obvious. I have seen quite a few queens emerge now and they really look just like queens- perhaps slightly smaller but not easily confused with regular workers.

I think we made a video I will see if I can get it. The odd thing about that hive swarming was it had loads of room- two supers- one full of freshly cleaned stickies with plenty of room- brood not honey bound at all. It was really as if the bees thought it was spring. I guess there is no telling with bees- they get their own ideas. The hive was in Bondi- and apparently those coastal bees can get a lot of good forage over winter and you can even get a harvest.

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I guess Sydney had a false Spring weather there also. Last Spring here was unusually dry with the drought and although all my Spring splits were successful they didn’t boom as in previous Springs but when the drought finally broke at the end of February most of my hive got into the Spring swarming mode so much I was needing to make more brood hives and make more splits.
Cheers

well what do you know? Vicky said “Yep- that’s the Queen!”

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I agree with Vicki, this is new to me, it’s not only the splayed legs but the color on the legs that no matter how hard you look, you can’t see any of that color on any of the bees legs, even though they’re mostly out of view, you’d think you’d see a tiny bit of color. That’s something I’ll look into first opportunity.

Examine the top of the thorax, to my eyes it’s definitely more pronounced than the rest of the bees. Big enough to put a dot or a little round disc with a number on.

PS @Semaphore, I wanted to check on a nuc with a very young queen. These are the best 2 photos we took.


No prizes for spotting the queen. I did observe color on the legs of the queen compared to the workers legs. The photos show a little bit of color on the legs which is new to me. For me that’s one more thing to look for when in doubt.
cheers

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Credit where credits due, well done for spotting the queen @fffffred, just goes to show the benefit of taking pictures.

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It’s amazing how photos can show things differently. In my top photo, the wings look way shorter than the abdomen. Whereas in the bottom photo the difference is not so obvious.She’s obviously laying eggs :slight_smile: She laid a few while we were shooting her.

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@JeffH, when I look for a queen more often than not I recognise her seeing her legs. It is not a conscious effort but shape, colour and how she walks jumps to my my mind before I see the abdomen.

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Much the same here. Sometimes you’ll spot her on a frame as you’re lifting it out. Other times she’ll be hiding under a gap above the bottom bar. It’s queens in photos when there’s only one photo that gets some people. I’m interested now in the color on the queen’s legs that doesn’t appear to be on workers legs. I’m guessing that the color corresponds with the color of the abdomen. If that’s the case a caucasian queen will have black legs, the same as the workers.

Now I see what you mean. I assume you are talking about Grey Mountain Caucasian bee (there is yet Yellow Valley Caucasian). Below I added a video where guy shows grey caucasion queen. Skip the first 45 seconds and see the legs :slight_smile:

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No, I just knew that caucasians were black. The legs of the queen in the video are still a lighter color than the abdomen. I think the queens legs are a bit thicker & longer than the workers.

I’m intrigued by the color on the legs of the queens.
In this video, you can definitely see the color on the legs which to my eyes, matches the color of the abdomen. All the worker’s legs are black.

This is our $500 video. We got paid $500 from a UK television production company for the rights to use content from the video.
Apart from that, if another photo pops up where the queen is doubtful, look for color on the legs.
cheers

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I agree that @fffffred has done a very nice job of catching the queen in the act of laying. I also agree with @Semaphore’s Vicky. The splayed legs and in particular, the beefy hind legs are a dead giveaway. Together with the light abdomen, and the rubbed thorax that is almost a dead certainty.

Here is a photo of one of my queens from a few years ago. She has the same splayed legs and beefy hind legs. However, her abdomen is not that light in colour. If you look in the bottom right corner, there is a very young nurse bee which also has light legs and a very light abdomen. However, her hind legs are not beefy, her thorax and eyes are fluffy and her legs are not splayed. Tricky things, these queens!

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I’ll forget about leg colors then. Anyway I called it a queen first & gave all of my reasons. My mentor didn’t at first, she quickly came around. I agree, well done @fffffred.

Fred did say she was small, which would account for the thorax only being slightly larger than that of the workers. I wonder if she would fit through a queen excluder.

Sadly that other photo seems to be gone. It must have been in a thread that got removed a couple of months ago. The one where Vicky said she wasn’t a queen. In my view she got 1 wrong & 1 right :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Thanks to my friends at Bunnings, I now have a frame holder for both my hives😁

Will test it out tomorrow and make the most of the warm weather for what should be my final inspection for the season before winter arrives.


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I like that. Maybe put a bolt and nut on the outer hole to prevent the frame accidentally being knocked off?

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I might just do that :wink: thanks

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Hi Fred, just looking at your photo. Did that brood box come with a bamboo QE? If so, are you happy with them?