just had to google SWMBO…
Hello Wilma!
I think your comment was fine. I understand where you are coming from- and your concerns. I’ve just had different experiences.
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As Jack said, we need to gather our own local experience and adapt our practices as we go and learn. I do understand flow hivers to be pioneers and there is a lot to learn from conventional beekeeping. We just have to learn fast and adapt and apply the old knowledge to suit our modern methods.
In fact, just to learn, I do now also have conventional Lang hives and ordered a top bar hive.
We are not all just about to crank a handle.
Our apiary is also involved in 3 different scientific bee research projects internationally.
There, no reason to slam all new beekeepers just because they started with flow hives. Some of us are not blindfoldedly doing it just for honey money or to sell nucs.
The only thing I don’t like is people getting bees and never managing them. And that’s sure not flow specific.
@Webclan that is a bit harsh and not fair. Jeff is nothing but giving with his time and knowledge. We all call it as we see it based on our experiences.
Adam
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I feel the same way:
I was just thinking since it’s best to make sure the frames are ripe and healthy, and to verify that the majority of frames must be lifted out, a pan could be installed while the frames are out. Those frames could be stored in another deep to make lifting the flow super easier for the bee-keeper.
I have also thought of a tray system and mentioned it to Stu and Cedar. Almost like the coreflute slider but between the brood box and the super. Apprarently they have also thought of this idea. And are continually experimenting with new and better ways for the Flow Hive 
We’ll see what the new models of Flow Hives have in the future.
This was the little pic I drew up quickly a while ago:
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I love that idea, however I can see one down side, I think that the bees will build bridging comb in that space.
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It’d only be on for harvesting and then it’d get removed. I thought of it a day before Faroe 
LOL Send gratuity check to Red_Hot_Chilipepper@awesomeideas.com 
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I think the idea is to avoid lifting the super full of honey first. I don’t think that can be avoided. To make it easier, I’d remove 3 frames first. That does two things, it makes the super easier to lift off plus you get to physically inspect the frames. With the aid of smoke, I believe it would be less stressful on the bees than having honey spill onto the brood.
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Sorry, @Anon . This is where the idea originated, back in October 2017. I’m ok with Flow using my intellectual property for nothing 
Such great people!
Actually earlier, in August 2017, on the same topic, I proposed the use of a hive mat… My tray idea was a “refinement” of this earlier idea…
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Yes, I call it as I see it too. Heartfelt apologies, never meaning to insult anybody personally.
It’s just that saying something and then deleting, as if it never happened whereas some read it and got their cockles raised.
I said stupid stuff in the past, yet I stand by it in the feeling of that moment.
Raising controversy and then deleting, I don’t think that’s ok.
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You sure got a point Dan.
However, I don’t think a tray is necessary, unless you are a commercial beek wanting to extract all frames at the same time as quickly as possible and catch the drips.
I can’t see flow hives a viable option for commercial beekeeping at all (yet), if you think a brood/honey frame usually costs less than $2 and all they have to do is spin it out, with the equipment they already have.
In the meantime we crank the key in increments, to avoid spillage. It really works, and actually is not always necessary.
I noticed, if I ever felt the need to check and lift the flow frames, it’s easier and way less traumatic to lift the super away from the brood box first. That way you don’t have guard bees attacking and have all the time you need to check your flow frames.
Wish somebody would have told me earlier.
@Webclan It is not necessary for me either, but I suppose Flow might see otherwise for customers generally as @Faroe has alluded to. To be honest, I wouldn’t have come up with the idea had it not been for @JeffH and his tenacity and concern in relation to the issue. It got me thinking outside the square so to speak, so I readily give him credit too of course.
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As we all know, we are pioneers, and our experiences will be incorporated into future designs.
In a few years the flow idea will have ironed out all our difficulties and none of the thousands who shared experiences to initiate improvements will ever get a mention.
I’m still happy to be part of it. Can’t wait to see where we are in 5 years or so.
The major asset will be our experiences in how to populate, maintain and harvest flow supers in our respective climate zones.
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This is a classic example of why I am against the extended editing on this forum. @Faroe, you asked me to let you know if it gets out of hand, now this section makes no sense, I rest my case.
Care and thought must be put into a post before hitting reply peeps. 
As for the flooding issues, it has been said on here time and time again that the frames are best opened in sections and this amount is condition dependent. I have not had flooding, yet. Yes Flow should address this issue but a tray beneath is not going to be a seller… Some sort of breather built into the Fframe may work too.
Bottom line is that education is the key and not all Flow owners come to this forum and read up before harvesting just as not all beginners read up on keeping bees…
Flow needs to properly address this issue from the roots.
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@skeggley, I often see deleted posts, I never give them a second thought. I guess we’re all different. Wilma thought my 3 line post should be deleted. My second post that I deleted was me telling Jack that I was going to delete the first one. As you’ll read, Jack said “I think your comment was fine”. Not only does my comment have to pass the Wilma test, it also has to pass the Faroe test.
Now take a look at those photos that Heron posted. I fail to see how a breather in the flow frames would help. 
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I have the same concerns about the forum that posted threads get taken away from the subject but as being new to this forum others that had been here longer intimated that the way it was being run suited them, which it may do. But something that I want to refer back to is impossible to find if the comment can’t be found again. And yes, I have been also guilty of adding my twenty cents worth at times.
@Faroe I wonder why Flow Hive, Cedar and Stu, do not add a printed sheet with their products making buyers aware of the forum which could only be an advantage to them.
Just my thoughts…
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Hi Jeff.
I looked at those photos and then looked again harder. Just now I put a straight edge of a piece of card up against my computer screen and lined it up with the bottom of the Flow frame in the second photo in the series you just posted. It is quite bowed. I don’t think it is an optical illusion as the bottom of the monterey pine box or whatever it is that it is sitting in lines up nicely with the card. If the bottom of the Frames are bowed, the top must also be curved. I’m not sure how they came to be like that, but when they are in the hive when harvested, they are secured generally by bits of wax stuff the bees adhere to them and then the frame surrounds.
Flow should change the marketing video to show how to properly open the frames. If they haven’t already, add it to the instruction manual if they are concerned about hurting sales.
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I totally agree Ed, Jeff has only said it as it is. There is nothing gained in shooting the messenger. I found nothing incorrect in what he said.
Cheers
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