Taken that way… Exactly. Which is why it is take offence, not give offence. You have norhing to apologise for, rather everyone who chose to attack has. I personally found the first video charming, not so much the bee stuff although that was amazing, but the relationship between father and son. When dad looked at son with delighted almost disbelief that the Flow worked, and son wrapped his arm around dad, I was sold. Such love. If these people are frauds they are the best in the business.
3 Likes
A great approach Sara 
I come from a family of old school beekeepers, we’ve been at it near a century. Not really much negativity in my family. A little apprehension but not negative.
Our biggest concerns are, will we be able to really clean it in a few years, and what happens if the honey granulates in the flow frame.
We’ve also kind of figured it’s unlikely to be practical for large producers, both on the time it takes and in overhead costs. But we figure it’s as near to perfect for the small backyard guys as you can get, especially when you see the price of a new hobbyist size extracting line up.
4 Likes
Dana, I have been giving that issue some thought. Before I ordered the frames I decided this; If the frames get really yucked up, and the bees don’t clean them up enough on their own, A hot water bath will do the trick.
Beeswax has a relatively low melting point range of 62 to 64 °C (144 to 147 °F) and just submerging them in very hot water will clean them up just fine.
Adding bleach (5 to1) to the solution will kill nasties as well. Once clean 48 hours in the freezer at or below 20 °C (-3°F) for 48 hours kills moths.
This is a resource page for anyone wnating to read up on issues such as this.
1 Like
Yep a warm bath should do the trick, our FAQs page does talk about this
http://www.honeyflow.com/faqs/cleaning-frame-maintenance/p/67
http://www.honeyflow.com/faqs/does-the-honey-crystallise-in-the-flow-frame/p/69
We are starting to look at volume discounts for commercial beeks, though it’s some time off (we are pretty busy fulfilling the backyard orders!) please contact us via our contact page and choose ‘ccommercial’ option to be notified for updates on this.
And we are waiting for results of the latest tests in irradiating the Flow frames (eg for foul brood) will keep you posted .
3 Likes
Thanks Yuri, good to know we are on the right track!
I’m also new to beekeeping. Consequently I’ve been doing a lot of reading as well as spending time with my mentor. History explains that the langstroth frames received the same wrap when introduced. Our local beekeeping group is looking forward to seeing my hive in action and are keeping open minds about it.
2 Likes
Yo SWFLBEE ,
This is Captain Midnight ,
Alias David from Down under .
Old Beekeepers probably have there deep-seated concerns drawn from their years of experience and their research . When the motor car was invented , the opposition to it was immense - looking back on any revolutionary invention , it took years for general acceptance . Som e saw the immediate value and the inventions become a reality . Some other fears old timers may have but do not talk about might include 
The capital cost in purchasing 100,s of flow- hives .
Making their uncapping machines redundant ( capital costs could extend into ($ 100,000.0o)or more .
Suppliers and manufacturers are cut out of the marketplace . (but not all )
The closed marketing system changes spending patterns and turns on its head traditional supply companies .
The brilliant indigo marketing / funding /supply chain / elimination of start up competitors makes people jealous , envious , nervous ,and off-guard .
For a startup company to have achieved in 5 x months what it has is nothing short of stellar , and old guards have seen plenty of shooting stars crash back to earth .
So how do you pick the real deal from the con or dud ? Going with your intuition or gut is not scientific , a start up has no track record !
The best guide is peer review and by the likes of Michael Bush and all the experts consulted who have an informed lifetime involvement in bees . They are the references to quote the doubting Thomas’s of this world . A part from the newbee converts getting conflicting opinions , the big winner is the bees . So many , perhaps millions of people who will hear about a new way of harvesting honey will bring a wave of interest to beekeeping , this in turn will generate new beekeepers . Some of them will tune to nature ,listen to it and learn .
That will be a great legacy and I am pleased you are becoming part of this journey ,
3 Likes
Yes this product has caused a bit of a stir. You know you have created something revolutionary when it causes people to polarise. Those that love it and those that hate it. We’ve certainly done that.
I’m guessing the beekeeping world will watch closely as people start to use the flow hive, which will be the true test. I think it is a brilliant product and predict it will become one of the most used beehives over time. Lets see how the next year or so pans out.
3 Likes
…as people start to use the flow hive
Is it being used on any scale anywhere?
They have been tested extensively in NSW with Cedar and Stu, then there are quite a few people around Australia and a few in different countries who have been given hives to try. I feel certain people will love them, but like with any new product once tens of thousands of people start using them, we will start to see more of it’s strengths and weaknesses. I think a short coming may be thixopropic honeys or honey with a tenancy to Chrystalise, they may not run out easily enough. Perhaps jiggling the mechanism will release thixotropic honey?? Honey varies so much somethings might work for some and not others.
Part of the reason we setup this forum was to ensure we could get feedback from our customers. We want to make sure we are here help people, find out about what problems people are having and what new and interesting things people are doing with their Flow™ hives.
6 Likes
A way around the candy or jellied honeys is to insert the flow frames after these floral sources have finished. Especially in a warm climate, there should be plenty of other sources around unless the hives are located near a monoculture area such as Canola.
1 Like
The best advice I could tell anybody is the do a comprehensive study of “bee culture”. Once we understand fully (almost fully) what the bees do in the wild, then we can use that knowledge to our advantage to determine for ourselves what’s the best way to keep bees. Couple that knowledge with a couple of experienced beekeepers that are prepared to take us under their wings & mentor us. Nothing really compares with knowledge that can be freely handed down. Most of that knowledge comes from a lot of trial & error, learning by mistakes made in the early years. A lot of the stuff the older experienced beekeepers will tell you, you can’t find in books, that’s the best knowledge, I reckon. There’s one 20 minute dvd worth it’s weight in gold “The City of Bees” by the Moody Institute of Science. The only book to acquire or borrow would be the “Abc to Xyz of Bee Culture”.
3 Likes
WOW, thank you, yes it is, I didn’t know it was on there, that’s fantastic news. I don’t know how many times I watched that. The information in that video is priceless. I love telling people how that when a bee witnesses a bee dance & decides to go on that journey, she only takes enough fuel for the one way trip. Also the countless hours the bees spend building the comb. This video also explains why you can harvest honey from the rear of a hive without any bees hanging around you. Good to do while the bees are bringing in plenty of honey. It would be a different story if honey was scarce.
Don’t you just love dyed-in-the-wool bee keepers??? I’m to late in the season to have a honey flow, you should have got your hive set up earlier than this, they wont survive the winter blaa, blaa, blaa
Then turns around in the group being demonstrated to - now that the June gap is over, there will be plenty of stores laid up by the end of August, after that they will then start preparing for winter by September.
Am I so stupid or did they just contradict them selves???
There was the old OSR conversation.
I could almost feel the jealousy dripping. Some people can never be happy for others doing their own thing
4 Likes
I wouldn’t be worried about anybody else opinion. Get on with learning with your bees, grow with them. Yes, you will make mistakes but bees can handle most things. Just be kind and not negligent. Have a great time with them.
I feel like chucking a couple of hives in the river at the moment but tomorrow is another day
4 Likes
One thing that is really impressing me is the passion and care people show for their bee. I just love the fact that you have actually named your queen bees.
I think with the flow hives, some older experienced bee keepers are taking their time to get their heads around the idea. As their knowledge increases, their attitude changes and this is reflected in what they write.
At the end of the day I am impressed by bee keepers wanting to do the best by their bees.
4 Likes
That was very interesting and some of the best footage I’ve seen inside a comb. The religious rhetoric that followed was unexpected.
1 Like
I’ll take a stab at the basic bullets. It’s too much work to cover every detail of their complaints.
- Plastic Comb
If you can’t stand plastic, then don’t buy a Flow hive. But lets face it people have been using plastic foundation now for probably a century. It was pretty common a half century ago. People have been using fully drawn plastic comb since at leas half a century ago. If plastic bothers you, then don’t use it.
This is an interesting line from that section:
“Incidentally, a Langstroth hive can be managed without any comb (so you let the bees make their own). It’s how the backward beekeepers like Kirk Anderson and Dee Lusby run their hives.”
I assume the “managed without any comb” was a brain fart and they meant “without any foundation” because obviously bees can’t exist without comb… so giving the benefit of the doubt, they are still wrong about Dee Lusby. She spend a huge amount of time making her own foundation. She does not do foundationless. I probably didn’t get included in the list because I said I liked the Flow frames… but I do a lot of foundationless.
- Non-Existent Communion Between Bees & Beings
Really? If harvesting is some kind of wonderful communion between bees and me someone forget to tell the bees. The interactions I have with bees that are pleasant have more to do with inspections and queen rearing and splits than harvest. Do they think that people will no longer inspect their bees? Split their colonies?
Here’s an interesting line from that section:
" Bees work themselves to death, so why should have such easy access to their food?"
Guilt? Then maybe you shouldn’t steal their honey in the first place if that’s how you feel about it. You’ll sleep better not robbing them…
- “Expensive Gimmick”
Well, I can’t argue that a Flow hive is not expensive. I think it’s very expensive. But then so is an extractor, yet I can’t seem to talk the hobbyists out of buying them… If you have the money to spare and you are a beekeeper, I don’t see how you can resist buying at least one flow hive to play with for the same reason that hobbyists buy an extractor even though it will never pay for itself…
12 Likes