That makes a lot of sense mate. Maybe I go a step further then, and place the Flow super in the middle, (just above the QX) during spring for more harvests, then swap the supers later, and move the QX up before winter. Will that cause any issues I haven’t seen yet?
I’m not as smart as @skeggley!… this is my story: I bought the original Flow hive when they came out and set it up a year later as I didn’t get a nuc the 1st year. I thought I was prepared but in hindsight I obviously was not. If there is a beekeeping mistake, I made it, including starting out with foundationless frames like Flow suggested at the time. My first bees were relentlessly toey too which didn’t help. The Flow hive roof was leaking badly and didn’t even realise. Then the honey leaking issues, loose wires etc…. I only followed Flow’s harvesting instructions, which I thought it’s the rational thing to do.
Being a recluse I avoid social media and don’t tend to seek or participate in forums such as this, so I wasn’t aware of what was being discussed here regarding harvesting contrary to Flow’s instructions.
My hive was a total mess and I pretty much gave up and tried to sell it. I was talked into not giving up by another beekeeper but I still sold the original hive because the issues I had with it were too much to deal with for a novice like me. I was overwhelmed to be honest. I also still have a lot of guilt, and shame about mismanaging my first hive.
Anyway I then tried again with two hives and am now a lot more confident after what I learned from the first disaster. That’s why I pointed to you the leaks and wires, so that you can avoid my mistakes.
For some reason, Flow hives are controversial. Some beekeepers hate them, others adore them. I’m in the middle and for me they’re just a hive with a built-in extractor, they have advantages and disadvantages just like anything else and buyers should be aware of the limitations and workarounds in my opinion. The technology behind them is brilliant, the workmanship not so much from my experience.
Thanks for this, at least you can claim to be smarter than me . The reason I went for Flow was the harvesting side of it as it seemed to make sense, so i will probably go for another.
I had one guy who has a retail store trying to put me off said the stickies are a problem, don’t know how that pertains to the Flow Super though.
I am just glad I had a dig thru this site and found the info so I can try get on top of it before rather than later. it is just a pity Flow isn’t just a bit more proactive and problem solving. especially with QS on their hives the reason I chose theirs against the Chinese ones is because they are made here and should be superior in every way.
I would be interested in your issues with foundation-less though as that was the way i am heading but wired. mainly due to the push that way by Flow Hive. Cheers Brent
Tried this and they bypassed the Flow super preferring the top box possibly moving what was in the Fframes up…
The way I see it, and I’m not a bee, the Fframes are an expansion tank, only utilised once the WSP and brood box is full. Try not to over complicate things. Personally I’d prefer to only have 1 brood and 1 super but feel more comfortable with the current set up and this has worked for me in my area. If I wasn’t so reliant on local native flora the set up would be different.
I’d be surprised if this were true.
Me too, and not just my first hive. Live and learn.
You are kidding me right? Haha… sometimes I swear bees are on a mission to mess with our minds. I got the opposite.
My bees thought it was funny to empty the outside frames of honey in the brood box, and move them in the Flow frames. Not a drop of honey in the brood box before winter that’s why I’m tossing this double brood box idea.
Don’t tell me that mate, tell the bees…
I’m sure there are beekeepers out there which are very successful with foundationless frames. I’m not one of them.
My bees decided on building comb perpendicular to the frames, instead on the little wooden guide that Mr.Flow supplied. It was a mess that as beginner it’s better not to have.
I’m not sure why they push the foundationless method so much especially to beginners, it’s just asking for trouble & I hate seeing all the collapsed comb photos on Facebook. But then again I also don’t understand a lot of ideas that come from the locality in which the Flow Hive was created .
I’ve always used foundation and our beeswax is still as pure as it gets.
I reckon they supply foundationless frames because of the restrictions and problems with shipping, importing and storing waxed frames. They wouldn’t be able to send faxed frames to WA for example.
I’ve run a lot of foundationless frames over the last few years and have never had much wonky comb.
Flow could easily make a metal QX as an optional extra to a Flow Hive, but they won’t. I have had a few reasons for that but none are valid. When I ordere3d my 4 Flow Hives I asked them not to include the plastic QX but prepared to pay the full price. The QX’s were sent regardless. The Flow Hive is marketed to the beginner bee keeper and to advise foundationless frames is sad, putting it mildly. After 47 years of bee keeping I haven’t used foundationless frames for about 45 years. When I began I tried to save a few $ but had a lot of extra work and issues in return.
OK, Australian wax is among the cleanest in the world but I wonder if plastic foundation is a better option than nothing?
I have tried plastic foundation but in my climate the number of frames where the foundation buckles from the heat made them a failure. They might work in some climates satisfactorily but not here. A lot of how to work bees best is controlled by the climate we have to work with.
Cheers
I wish it was true but they are missing out on sales because they won’t offer a metal QX or even not prepared to not send the plastic QX when asked to not send it at the same full price. They now have a new colored QX but they still sag and become brittle thou they claim it is resistant to UV, which simply isn’t true. I do a lot of apiary visits and most of the issues about hardware issues is for plastic QX failures. Wonky comb with no foundation runs second. A long way back in 3rd place is poor hive management or following bad advice.
Flow are missing out on sales, a fact. I won’t buy from them till they stop insisting on selling and delivering to me a plastic QX I don’t want and throw in the recycle bin.
I often wonder if an accountant runs the business rather than Stu and Cedar.
Oh the first world issues eh, how do we cope?
Sometimes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. This issue has been discussed numerous times and has destroyed interesting informative threads in the past, let’s not have a repeat performance eh?
If I were you Brent, I’d only purchase the Flow super and buy the rest from a local supplier, this way you can get exactly what you want and save some bucks too. If you’re handy with the tools only get the Fframes, plenty of plans to modify the wooden ware.
There was a time when Henry Ford only had his cars painted black, it takes customer demand to get changes and what better place than this forum to let it be known. We won’t get improvements to Flow Hives any other way if Flow don’t know…
If your happy using a plastic QX then that is fine but some bee keepers would much prefer not to buy a Flow Hive with a plastic QX to unpack it and toss it in the recycle bin.
An option, as you say, is to just buy the super from Flow and the rest of the hive from a bee gear shop, that way is also cheaper, and we can buy a metal QX with no wastage. Hopefully one day Flow will understand that they are missing out on sales.
I doubt any thread has been destroyed as you say, I’m glad that we can openly discuss ideas and problems on the forum.
l’ll explain a little.
In my country clipping and marking queens is widely done and indeed is the quality standard for selling nucs, especially to beginners. Not all beekeepers do it and this largely depends on their (and their neighbours) tolerance of swarming bees.
The most important point to know is that clipping is not a swarm prevention method. It is a safety net if all your other methods fail.
Clipping involves snipping about a quarter off one wing, just enough to ensure that she cant keep up with the swarm. Its done at the same time as the queen is colour marked.
Swarm prevention methods are the usual; ensuring enough space, splits, brood reduction etc Most importantly hives to be inspected for queen cells approxiately weekly (9 days max) during swarm season (May and June) and if any found taking measures such as the Pagden artificial swarm.
However if these fail because you havent been able to do the inspections or because you have missed the queen cells, then the bees will swarm in a prime swarm with the queen. The queen will not be able to keep up and will fall to the ground in front of the hive while the swarm will continue, usually to a nearby tree or bush. After a couple of hours the queenless swarm will give up and return to the hive.
The old queen may be lost or the beekeeper may find her in a small cluster beside the hive.
At this stage the beekeeper has a problem that needs urgent sorting out. The hive is queenless but has multiple new queens ready to emerge in a few days. Best strategy is to leave one good looking queen cell to emerge (hive won’t swarm again) but also if useful you can keep others in nucs, splits or incubators as back up.
Thanks for that info Jim, a couple of reads to get my head around it. needed. Thanks for taking the time to explain it. Clipping a queens wing isn’t common here in Australia but I’ve heard of it but never had it explained.
Cheers
. The reason I went for Flow was the harvesting side of it as it seemed to make sense, so i will probably go for another.
I’d be surprised if this were true.
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