another trick my friend vicky uses to help get bees to accept a new queen is to mist the bees with water from a spray bottle with a half teaspoon of vanilla essence in it. You can also use this spray to combine small amounts of bees from a dwindling colony to a strong one.
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Combining small amounts of bees from a dwindling colony to a strong one doesnāt fit into my vocabulary. My climate does make a difference, for sure. I always bolster a dwindling colony from a strong colony. Thatās while Iām sorting out the reason why the colony dwindled in the first place.
Oh- I mean a really tiny amount like a cup or two- when you get a teency late season swarm and it goes queen-less, etc. Larger ones I would use the newspaper method- or build them up with brood etc.
I had a teency colony recently. They may have filled a cup, thatās it. I still wonder how they didnāt stop the beetles from sliming the pollen in the frames they occupied. Another person might have shook them onto the ground to let them take their chances in joining other colonies via the entrances. Me, I saw the opportunity to turn this teency colony into a decent colony, while making themselves a new queen. I did the shaken nurse bee trick from 3 brood frames out of a strong colony. I gave them a fresh frame of BIAS as well as remove the frames they didnāt need. Itās now well on itās way to producing a new queen with several queen cells identifiedā¦
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When you think about it Jeff the teeny colony has likely perished. The colony that remains in the hive is not the same colony it is a colony from the hive that donated the BIAS frame.
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That IS correct Skeggley. In essence itās the inspiration to start a new colony & get a new queen underway, which Iām always looking to do anyway.
I was thinking about it yesterday. You could start a new colony the way I did without that cup of old bees.
@JeffH Jeff my comment was in regard to the timing of introducing a new Queen, and hence saying that introducing a new one TOO early, can result in the worker bees killing her, because they can still smell (in the hive) the old queen, even 10 days after she has died. Thus my example of that happening too an amateur beekeeper, and that time frame factor was explained to him by the queen breeder. The breeder said that there is only a 3 day window from being to early, to being too late, a pretty tight call, mmm.
Considering that you donāt purchase new queens, is possibly the reason why you havenāt come across this issue.
I buy queens frequently. I have introduced a new queen at every time point between 2 hours and 7 days after removing the previous queen. My preference is 1+ days after the previous queen has been removed, however, I have also used the Snelgrove method of queen introduction very successfully for times just a few hours after removing the old queen. Here is a description of that method:
Queens cost $30 to $70, so I make sure that my method has a high chance of succeeding. I am all too aware of workers killing her, and my success rate for introductions exceeds 95%
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Hi Trev, I used to buy new queens annually because I was told it was āthe thing to doā or similar words. In some hives it worked out ok. However on a few occasions, I requeened perfectly good hives, for them to go backwards. I decided to let my bees make their own queens a long time ago. I broke that rhythm about 10 years ago when I purchased 15 queens. Only about 8 were successful.
What I said previously about killing the queen one day, then introducing the new queen the next day is a good recommendation, I believe. Remember that when you introduce a new queen, Iām talking about a queen in a cage with a candy plug that takes a few days to get eaten out. By the time the bees eat the candy, they are generally accepting of the new queen as she emerges out of the cage.
Remember that queens from queen breeders are randomly selected, whereas new queens the way I do it are naturally selected. You could finish up with a runt when queens are randomly selected. Another thing to watch out for is poorly mated or unsuccessfully mated queens. The queen breeder (the shonky ones) could sell them before they are properly proved.
The queen pheromone will generally wear off after about 3 days. It takes 3-4 days before a colony starts to produce emergency queens after the queen has been removed. Killing the queen, then leaving her body in the hive will result in the bees starting emergency queens almost instantly. Therefore if you kill the queen today, with the view of installing a new queen in a cage tomorrow, donāt leave the dead queen in the hive, because the colony would have already started emergency queens by the time you install the cage, which could result in the colony rejecting the new queen.
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@JeffH Jeff something Iāve observed, is there are nearly as many opinions (regarding bees) as there are bee keepers. I donāt think that your method of how you achieve a new queen would work here where I live, as there are only 2 other beekeepers within flying distance of a Queen and drones, and all three are only small amateur beekeepers, and Iād be concerned that inbreeding could easily occur. We are also very lucky to have (35kms away) a Queen breeder, with a huge reputation of breeding hi quality Queens, and for breeding them with a very placid nature which is passed on to the hive that has had one of those Queens placed into it. My hive has one of his Queens in it, and she was only put in the nuc back in early Spring last year, and I have only had them since mid November, and already I can get away with doing almost anything close to the hive and havenāt gone even close to getting stung by any of the bees in my hive, not even once. I would liken them to pets they are so placid, I only wear a flow hat and vale, standard long sleeved bee gloves, a zip up jacket, jeans, and pull on work boots when Iām doing an inspection.
All I can say to you, is if what you are doing works for you then congratulation, and stick with what you are doingš
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Hi Trev, itās great that you have a queen breeder with a good reputation living not far from you.
If you were to do a preemptive swarm control split during next spring, it wouldnāt hurt to give a natural selection new queen a try. You would have nothing to lose. I always take splits away from the parent hive so as to avoid bees returning to it. With that in mind, if you know someone in another district that would allow you to place a nuc on their property for a month while it makes a new queen, that would be a really good option.
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Jeff: Iām just curious about your naturally selected bees. My own bees are the same. Iāve only ever bought one queen. Some of my hives are a bit aggressive- whereas my friend In Sydney has much less aggressive bees. She uses natural selection as well but routinely requeens aggressive hives with bred queens (3 strike rule). Some years she might replace %25 of her queens.
Iām not sure if itās just that Sydney bees are less aggressive than Adelaide ones or if itās the management. Sydney bees tend to be yellower than our darker Adelaide mutts. Also Sydney has more honey flow- maybe bees are just happier here with less competition and stresses.
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Hi Jack, a few years ago I decided to act sooner rather than later on aggressive queens. Iād say itās something I read in here by Dee or @Dawn_SD. The strategy is to minimize the aggressive drones in the area, as a matter of urgency. I let aggressive bees make a new queen with brood from a quiet colony. Iāll put the brood of aggressive queens into queen-rite colonies in the process. That strategy works well for me.
A couple of young blokes recently picked up 4 colonies from me. They already own 20 hives. They commented on how quiet my bees were, that was while I transferred the 4th colony into their brood box.
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@JeffH Jeff thanks for the advise, but Iāve only lived where I am for a short time, and donāt know anyone whom Iād be willing to ask about taking a hive to their place. Also someone in this area has a huge dislike of bees, to the extent that they poisoned a commercial beekeepers 40 something hive, which also affected the owner and his wife putting them both in hospital. Hence it was the sudden drop in bee numbers, that pushed me into deciding to getting my own bees, as our fruit trees etc werenāt getting pollinated properly, caused by there no longer being enough bees about locally.
Also recently not far away, there was an outbreak of American Foul Brood, which resulted in the owner of the infected hives having all the hives/ bees destroyed. So Iāll keep my bees close, thank you.
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Youāre welcome Trevor, from memory I came up with an idea to counteract your concerns about your bees in-breeding.
cheers
@JeffH yes you did, but Iāve explained, that I donāt believe that your idea will work for me here, with the situation that I have, which I explained to you in my previous reply. Thank you for your thoughts, and all the best to you with your bees.
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Youāre welcome Trevor, however you shouldnāt view a good idea with a glass half empty approach. Anyway I think we were talking about something that wont happen for quite a few months.
All the best to you & your bees also.
@JeffH Jeff, I have no idea what you mean by your two comments, āhowever you shouldnātā¦glass half empty approach.ā, and the āAnyway I thinkā¦for quite a few months.ā
I think that this conversation is going nowhere, and I am growing tied of it, so can we just drop it, PLEASE.
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No worries, I wont say another word about itā¦ Just trying to help you to be successful with your bees.
cheers