Hi Vino,
I’m curious how the wild bees survive in your area.
What do they do in those conditions?
I always wonder if we pay more attention to nature we will find more answers.
So many opinions, so many answers.
Cheers
Bruce
I’m curious how wild bees survive in my area, too! I assume they are inside some hollow tree cavity or nestled inside the frame of somebody’s home. Wherever they are, I assume they are bees that have survived generation after generation in my climate and have been naturally selected to survive our winter. The bees in my flow hive were imported from 1000 miles to the south of me, from a state that does not experience any real extended “winter” conditions. They were the opposite of “local” bees.
I made the mistake of buying an imported package because I was following the advice of all the local bee people in my area. They get their bees from one supplier and I just went with them and got my bees last year from the same place. After a season of reading a lot more about supplier options and different breeds of bees, I decided to seek out a local breeder of winter hardy Russian bees. Last year was my first year and I really wasn’t thinking about that option. I was just trying to get through that first season of learning how to be a beekeeper. Now I know a lot more and feel like these new bees will be starting off with a much better advantage due to their lineage and local origin.
I have heard dozens of opinions about my setup and insulation and I really just have to do what I feel is right for my situation. The common thing everyone seems to agree on is providing wind protection and that was my main goal with the rigid foam. It’s providing a bit of insulation, but mainly it’s there to break the wind. It might look ridiculous and excessive, but not one person criticizing the foam shells has stood in that field for 5 months in sub-freezing temperatures and faced the wind that blows almost constantly. I’m doing my best. I’m following advice of a mentor and I’m learning and adjusting as I go. The purpose of my videos is to document my progress. I show what works and what doesn’t so other people can learn from my successes and failures.
I just want to give a ton of bees a nice place to live.
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I feel for you guys living in such hostile environments and have bees. Not many people here in oz could even imagine what it would be like or provide advise for your situation. We don’t see temps anything like you mentioned even in the coldest parts of AU. Just keep doing whatever works for you and hope you get the advice you need.
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Jim, it worries me that you blame your problems on the bees that other local beekeepers advised you to start with. I can’t help but wonder that if the only change you make going into next winter is the type of bees you use, is if you will suffer the same fate.
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Agree @JeffH. There must be other factors involved, especially since other beekeepers in the area seem to do ok with their own recommendation.
I saw one of vino movies once and thought that hive position would be very exposed to winter storms, flat as it looked. Not cozy at all. No protection.
We must explore all details that could be involved in the hive death, or it might just happen again.
It’s also much harder if only one hive is involved. Nothing to compare.
I would move the hive to a more protected place. Or plant it out or build other protections from winds.
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Jeff, of course other things will change! In addition to new, locally raised bees, they will be installed earlier in the season, they will start off the season with a box of fully drawn comb and honey (as opposed to a completely empty hive with zero foundation) essentially giving them a 1-2 month head start. I have a whole season under my belt now and know to look for varroa much earlier than I did. This is one of the most important things I learned last year. I know how to treat for varroa and won’t wait to do it until it’s too late. I also will be building a wind break structure around the hives to give them winter wind protection. There are so many things that will improve compared to last year.
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Well done Jim, that is good to hear. Good luck with your bees this season, cheers:)
Insulating the top of the hive with a much denser material than burlap sack should theoretically make a large difference. Most structures lose a large %, if not the greatest % of heat from the roof.
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Hi Vino, been following your YouTube channel since I purchased Flowhives last year. I was very surprised and saddened by your hive loss as it seemed you were doing everything right. I reserved two nucs late last year for this season, and spent the last year just learning as much as possible before actually getting bees this year for the first time. When you lost your hive and suspected that cold got to the bees since the bees were bred in warmer climate, I got a little worried about my future nucs. Sure enough, I found out when I picked them up that my nucs are from down south…so…looks like the bees and me will have an uphill battle for this coming winter. I’ll have to figure something out. Maybe the heating system discussed here and seeking advice from the local bee club.
I must say that Jim’s comments and first year experience really resonate with me. I also agree with Jeff that we can’t blame our failures on others, but I don’t think that’s what Jim was trying to imply.
The fact is, many bee suppliers in our colder climate actually do make a practice of hauling loads of bees from the southern states (Georgia, in my supplier’s case) every year, instead of making packages and nucs from their own stock of locally bred and winter-hardy bees. Why? Because it’s easier to get volumes of bees from warmer climates and thus more lucrative - so much more so than selling locally raised bees that it’s profitable even with the added cost of trucking and living off site while working the hives down south.
I think this practice is very problematic: at best it’s one of many forms of greedy salesmanship, at worst it’s yet more Big Ag-style disruption to nature - and bees are the ones to suffer most.
I hold myself accountable for my own naïveté as a beginner, as the adage goes - fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me! I bought my first package as part of taking a class with an experienced beekeeper last year, and never thought to ask where the bees came from because I assumed he supplied them from his own local apiary. I heard him talking about the trip he’d just made to Georgia on “package day”, when I was volunteering to help distribute the hundreds of packages he had sold. I felt sick about it, knowing that relocation to a more hostile climate would be yet another threat to their survival.
Fortunately, real LOCAL apiarists who sell their own bees or others’ from similar climates do exist. I’m eager to give this season another try with two nucs better suited to my region, and with valuable experience from last year.
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Insulating the top of the hive with a much denser material than burlap sack should theoretically make a large difference. Most structures lose a large %, if not the greatest % of heat from the roof.
The burlap is inside the hive and not meant as insulation. It is a wicking material to pull and collect moisture from inside the hive. There was a 2" solid foam shell around the hive and on the cover to provide wind break and insulation.
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I realise the burlap was inside, it read as though that was the only material you had employed in side the lid. Sorry to hear of your losses & I hope you manage to find a solution for the next winter.
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The conclusion I came to was not that the cold killed them entirely… I believe they were weakened by some disease. Maybe there was some die off. There is also evidence that the queen may have swarmed late in the season after I wrapped the hive up. The remaining bees tried to raise a queen, but she failed to mate so they never were able to get their population back to survivable numbers. Then, January and February’s arctic blast hit and they just couldn’t keep themselves warm. So the remaining small cluster probably froze. I believe that if the population that was in there in October had stayed, they would have had no trouble surviving. There were SO MANY bees in that hive. They could have easily stayed warm enough.
I think the biggest mistake I made was not treating for varroa early enough in the fall. I should have addressed the varroa in August instead of waiting until September. “Southern bees” are not inherently bad for northern climates… plenty of them do fine. There are so many things that can kill a hive! I’m trying Russians this year (which were bred in my state) to see if there is a noticeable difference in their winter hardiness and varroa resistance.
Also, you will have much better luck starting with nucs! I should have done that in Massachusetts. My bees spent the prime 3 months of the year just building comb. If they had been able to focus on brood and foraging, they would have been much more established when the fall hit.
Best of luck with your bees!
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Eva, you hit the nail on the head. I got my bees not really knowing the difference between locally bred vs. trucked-in bees. I was a beginner and had so many other things on my mind that I wasn’t thinking about the lineage of the bees. I was following my local beekeepers’ lead… I just went with my neighbor on “Bee Day” and picked up a package. It’s how I assumed things were done. I learned later that the bees came from Georgia. (Nothing against Georgia @Bobby_Thanepohn !) Being one year older and wiser, I have sought out locally-bred (40 minutes from my house) certified Russian nucs. I’ll see how these new bees go in a few weeks when I pick them up. They cost a LOT more than trucked-in bees, so I hope I’m getting what I paid for.
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I take zero offense, the bees on the other hand, are quite sensitive and have requested a safe space. I think that you’ll be pleased with local stock Jim ( @VinoFarm ). I would bet that you’d do much better this year regardless of the source of the bees given your ever-increasing knowledge.
Remember, your survivors are southern bees after all aren’t they?
Treat for mites earlier too 
Oh, where in Mass are you? I spent several great months in Ayer stationed at Fort Devins. I also missed a train stop there (Worcester) solely because the conductor’s pronunciation of the town was something only a local would know. I was listening for War-Chester and he called out Wusstah. I was late seeing Bananarama because of that 
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Good info, especially on timing of mite treatment. I just heard from from one of the local bee club experts that mites are likely to be bad this year in the northeast (where I am as well) because of the relatively mild weather we had for a large part of this past winter. So, be on the lookout!
Guess he was _Really saying something_🎼then, eh Bobby?
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I give multiple Cheers to All the Beekeepers in cold country. You work really hard for your honey. I imagine wild bee’s freeze also? Never even thought about bees and winter until I became a beekeeper.
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Ha ha…
Worcester = Wusstah
Gloucester = Glostah
Leicester = Lestah
Lots of odd pronunciations of towns up here.
We’re about 1/2 hour west of Ayer in Athol. (Which is pronounced Ath-all and not Ath-hole.) We drive past Ayer often down Route 2 on the way to Boston.
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I wouldn’t call this winter mild! There was less snow than normal, but it was colder and longer than most winters I remember. At least in my specific area. I’m very curious to see how the Russians handle mites.
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