Colorado Beekeepers

Connect with Locals
24

Hi Moz,

I was just responding to @Karey’s question, because for some reason there have been 3 messages above asking for a supply of bees. I agree with finding a local supplier, if you possibly can.

Personally I am a member of the San Diego Beekeepers’ Society, and I buy my bees from one of the co-leaders of our 1,000+ member group. I believe that it would be best if Karey did something similar, but failing that, there are other sources, it is just more risky.

I am not sure that I have ever heard this before, but I think I might know what you are getting at. As @Michael_Bush says on his web site, medicating bees has allowed weak and perhaps unfit bees to survive and propagate their poor genetics. Maybe we would be better only raising bees which don’t need chemicals to help overcome pests and disease. Is that what you are saying too?

In any case, I always buy unmedicated, naturally-raised, “hygienic” bees, which are good at keeping the hive clean and remove diseased/infested larvae as part of their natural behaviour. They are readily available, and I don’t want any unnecessary chemicals in my hives.

Hopefully this clarifies a bit, and hopefully Karey finds some suitable bees before it is too late to order for this season!

25

I do Vape but none of the other interventions. Vaping seems to be the least intrusive and I have good results.

26

LOL, vaping gives me images of you and the bees getting high on nicotine or other volatiles! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Do you use formic acid or oxalic? California won’t let us use either, yet… Seeing as bees make formic acid, and there is quite a bit in honey, that doesn’t seem logical, but I guess they are doing their best to avoid contamination and abuse. I think I should change my name to Candide, “all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds…” :blush:

27

Formic is available here as MAQS. There are associated queen losses and a lot of hobbyists use it after honey harvest (even though it must be applied with a super on) when it is difficult for superseded queens to get mated properly.
Although some people have been doing it for years, sublimating Oxalic acid crystals is fairly new but gaining popularity. You can do it repeatedly through the season without harming the queen (unlike trickling a solution of oxalic in sugar which causes malpighian damage and will shorten the life of the queen).It is relatively non-invasive. There is one hitch. Oxalic acid is now licensed for use in bees but there is only one product Apibioxal, and the batch numbers have to recorded. It is illegal to use any other so therefore you can’t use generic wood cleaner which is a fraction of the price

28

I use Oxalic from a reputable Bee suppliers.

I had no Varroa in the summer and some came off in September when I did the recommended 3 treatments over a couple of weeks and did another at Christmas and had a reasonable drop so while it is not spring I went again so will be interesting to see what my drop is like now.

29

Dee, here in the US, large commercial operations are treated and medicated for a host of situations.
Diseases such as Nosema ceranae,
Pests and parasites such as Varroa and Tracheal mites,
and other battles, such as hive beetles, etc.

Since huge operations (and some not so huge) ship their bees cross country to pollinate giant agri-business such as almonds, avocados, apples and cherries, bees are exposed to different dangers, so the large operations have to medicate and treat for these things on a regular basis.
“For example, 220,000 beehives a year pollinate alfalfa seed to be grown for cattle feed.” - http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/03/no_way_to_treat_a_bee.html

These commercialized bees are born and raised in this medicated environment.
When small, hobbiest beeks purchase bee packages from giant commercial operations, they are purchasing bees that have been medicated.
Once removed from this environment, their natural abilities to fight pests and disease has been compromised, and left to “fend for themselves,” without the previous medications and chemicals, many colonies simply don’t survive.

Michael Bush is VERY knowledgeable about bees. He teaches me something new on a very regular basis.
The push towards more hygienic bees is now being looked at as a tool in the fight against Verroa.
But bees raised to dependency on chemicals to treat it may not have the natural ability, meaning the beek has to then chemically treat…

It is a risk the hobbiest beek has to take when ordering and purchasing bee packages.
Like the admonishment to check your bee supplier for africanized honeybees (Arizona, Texas, and Californian suppliers are the biggest risks), to a lesser extent, suppliers need to be checked for how medicated their bees are.

“Readily available,” unmedicated, naturally-raised, 'hygienic" bees are available, but you may have to hunt for them, and they may well be pricier than commercially offered bee packages.
We got lucky the first year, and got burned badly the second.
But learned in the process.

To some extent, nations other than the US have less concern, as their regulations may prohibit such excessive medicating of bees. I do not know.
I DO know that in the US, purchasing commercial bee packages can be a “pig in a poke” situation when you use Google and just have a list of suppliers.

That is why I keep reiterating to contact local beekeepers in your area, or a beekeepers association near you, to ask them who they go through, or where you may find “local” bees.

Hope this helps!
~M

30

Moz, thank you for taking the time to post this. I didn’t realise the extent of such “bee farming” I suppose if we want to eat these things we have to accept it somewhat. It doesn’t lie easy with me.
I don’t eat Almonds and grow my own fruit. I am very very fond of Blueberries but restrict the enjoyment to when my own bushes are producing. Here in the UK our Bumbles for their commercial pollination are imported from Mainland Europe. It is illegal to release them into the wild. The nests (with bees) are incinerated after the crop is pollinated.
The world is going mad. We all want unseasonal cheap food.
I biggest “mono crop” is oil seed rape and the race is on to breed one that doesn’t require any pollination.
Thank heavens package bees haven’t caught on here.

31

Hi,
We are new to beekeeping as well here in Littleton, CO. Just got our Flow Hive and wondering should we order a nuc or cages bees? ~ $175 for nuc and $125 for caged bees. Money is not the issue, but wondering what will work best with getting the Flow Hive going. Thanks for any advice.

32

No question, go with a nucleus if you can. :blush:

33

Will do - thanks for the help. Greatly appreciated!

34

Hi,
Just another question …We just got our Flow Hive and am looking to get a 5 frame nuc based on your advice. I don’t understand how the bees get from the 5 frames into the Flow Hive. Is that not a special type of frame that comes with the Flow Hive? I am ready to order but want to make sure this is the right path.
Thanks again for the advice.

35

Just answered this on the other thread that you asked the same question… :wink:

36

Aren’t our flow hives smaller? - 8 frames, rather than 10, and not as tall? What if nuc frames are the larger ones? Or am I wrong on super sizes - like are they all the same depth, just differ in amount of frames?

I have settled on making my bee purchase from Highland Beekeeping. They are but an hour away and I know now their sourcing will be local bees.

The commercial bee med thread is interesting.

37

Karey, our brood boxes are 8 frame deeps. That means you can buy a 5 frame NUC and it will fit in the 8 frame brood box, as they are both deeps. Langs boxes come in 8 or 10 frames, in various depths, deeps, mediums, and shallow. HTH!
Tim

38

Now that I’m approaching the reality of dealing with bees again, and by myself, without my mentor … For overwintering next winter, I know the bees are going to need a 2 super high hive. I have the full flow hive package, but that’s one super and then the upper honey extracting super. What do I need to look for exactly (name and style/size) for the 3rd box?

39

I know I can continue reading and researching, but thought I’d get a quick answer here. And what best to paint/preserve my hive. I am not going to paint it white. At 8,000 ft (plenty of sun) and short growing season, I feel it needs more of a stain color, rather than the white sun reflection.

40

Firstly If you have a Full Flow Hive the basics you need is just the Flow and the supers always come off for winter regardless.

It is still useful to have a mentor all beeks should have someone even if it is just to bounce ideas off.

In Colorado you would be best to ask locals what they do they are the best judge of the weather, climate changes and requirements for your hive.

You should do as much reading on Bee Keeping as possible.

Most people are preserving their hives with Tun Oil

There is not always a quick answer - Some things are not black and white an the grey areas as where people differ

You sound like you are up near the snow fields, so you need to find out the specific forage and seasons near you.

Sorry there is no precise answer

41

I would, although i am a new beek as well, recommend getting another langs 8 frame deep. That way your frames will be interchangeable if you need it to move frames from lower brood box to the upper brood box. Go to http://www.beethinking.com/collections/langstroth-hives/products/langstroth-deep-cedar-hive-box?variant=454238661 to take a looks at the 8 frame deep from BeeThinking. This is where all our boxes are coming from if you care about matching all your boxes. I hear the deeps get heavy though, so in the end its probably just personal preference.
Tim

42

If you want a very close match, this is exactly what you need for brood. It is called an 8-Frame Langstroth Deep Box:
http://www.beethinking.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/langstroth-deep-cedar-hive-box?variant=454238661

If it is just for honey, I like these, because they are medium depth and not as heavy as a Deep, when full of honey:
http://www.beethinking.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/langstroth-medium-cedar-hive-box?variant=454243253

Beethinking recommend a coat of Pure Tung Oil for our hives.

43

Thanks for the links. My mentor, with hives in our meadow years ago, always left the hives 2 box high for winter. One year he even wrapped in insulation with black plastic covering, but only that one winter. They seemed fine without it. I thought flow hive was related to Langstroth sizing.