Converting to a horizontal hive

Olivia,
Have you thought about having the deep frames running “front to back” and the flow frames running left to right? I am toying with the idea in the hope that it gives the bees better incentive to fill the flow frames. I was thinking of 6 flows at each end with 30 deeps in the middle (+ false ends to reduce during winter) I am in Adelaide in south Australia and we have less of a winter than you guys​:sneezing_face::sunglasses:

I am indeed considering that! Was planning 24 deep frames with 6 flow frames running perpendicular.

I am at planning stage and expect to build over my winter (June July aug) I am however confused as to what to do at the bottom ie, do I have a 6 mm gap from bottom of frames to mesh floor and then corflute below that? I am concerned that corflute will be too " fragile " for the length of the hive - your thoughts? Then if I have to pull out corflute to inspect/ clean where do I put the legs? Because I want to harvest flows from the ends!
This started out as a very simple exercise as I drank my coffee and watched my bees, however it Is possible this thing has a life of its own and will have more floor space than your pentagon!!! I have yet o figure out placement of the pool😃

With my long hive I designed it with a base similar to the flow base. I have a divider in the middle though and two pull out trays beneath a screened bottom. This also incorporates the tilt requirement for flow frames…

Can I ask you both why you are planning on so many frames? My plan calls for 4 flow frames and around 16 regular. I’m hoping that will be enough for both brood and honey (with a moving vertical excluder you can place regular frames alongside the flow frames to produce honeycomb- and rotate regular frames out of the hive).

One thing before you guys get too far into your plans: maybe wait and see if mine works- to date as far as I have seen no one has used flow frames in a long hive and proved the concept- (please post here if you are reading and have done it or seen it). It seems @Schnucki had problems? His hive seemed perfect in theory…

I will have mine running in a week or so and hope I can see if the bees take to it before winter sets in

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Michelle, there is no science in my 30 + 12 frames, but you are hoping yours is big enough, I can actually make mine smaller if it is too big or turn it into two horizontal. Am really keen to hear how you go and would appreciate you keeping me up with the news. I will not be building until winter and hopefully populating in spring. Are you intending to have both flow and deeps running " back to front" or will your flows run longitudinal?
Jeff

I have all the frames running the same way- one reason is - it’s a lot easier! Just one long box with normal rebates cut the length of the box. Another reason- it means your queen excluder can move around- meaning you can rotate frames to the honey only side- any brood can hatch and when it’s full of honey you can remove it…

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My thinking is ( no science) is that it will be easier for bees to access all flows if longitudinal. You have qx at back of flows, not at side of flows. You are right, if they all face same way it will be easier and you may be right, it may be more attractive for bees but hey! That is the fun, I am more interested in pollination in my neighbourhood than honey, the honey is a bonus. PS I do not sell honey but doing a roaring trade swapping for tomato,chillies,venison,lemons. If I can get someone to mow my lawn I will be set

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Dadant’s book has an interesting paragraph on long hives / side storage which may be relevant to the conversation:

In a former chapter, we mentioned very wide hives, with side storage, under what is now termed “the long idea” system. Such hives are used in a number of localities, but the very deep hives are better suited to this method. So the most persistent system of side storage is followed with the De Layens hive, containing as many as 20 or more frames, 12 or 13 inches deep or nearly square. The difficulty is that the queen is at liberty to roam from one comb to another and may have a little brood in most of the frames. Then the honey is difficult to extract. We even tried section boxes and storage boxes in the sides of those hives. The bees prefer to place their honey close to the brood and as much as possible above it. This side storage proved inacceptable, whether in frames or sections.

From ‘Dadant system of beekeeping’ published 1920, page 26.

Do they mean " end storage" when they say “side storage”?
They say that there is one million currently in use and they market them now at 30 frames with the extra length assisting in early spring brood growth. Will be interesting to see how @semaphore goes, but if I do not keep Bunnings in business, who can they depend upon​:grin::grin::grin::grin::thinking::thinking::thinking:
Cheers

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This is a photo from page 18 of the DeLayens hive he is referring to (bottom of page):
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924003428897#page/n33/mode/1up

From the same reference on page 10:

Mr. Dadant senior then tried Quinby hives of different capacities, up to 20 frames of comb, or with a capacity of 3780, square inches of comb. These were too large by all means, and although we used some 40 of them for several years, we could only produce honey on what was later called "the long idea,’ that is to say we had both brood and surplus honey in the same apartment. Although the colony usually occupied one side of the hive with brood, the queen often roamed from one end of the hive to the other and honey sometimes had to be extracted from combs containing brood, a very undesirable arrangement.

With a photo of a 20 frame Dadant hive:

The full book is available from the Internet archive here:

Will save me pasting any more links back in and taking the conversation too far off track :smiley:

It would appear I require more research, but I figure in the bee world more research = more / different /alternate/ conflicting/ contrasting answers, so there is a fair chance I will find the answer I want!!!:smile: Now that being said I will approach with an open mind and do appreciate your input as I only have 6 months experience under my belt. I do figure though that I have a get out of goal free card in that I am designing a divider to go in the middle so I can have 2 hives instead of one
Cheers

I contributed to the discussion on long hives here too, which has some of my own experiments in this hive style:
Vertical Queen Excluders... langstroth deep frame

So did the long long hives work?

To be completely honest, I never got that far. I built bases for the hive and vertical excluders/followers etc. but I was never satisfied enough with the top cover design to complete the hive and introduce bees.

The above posted video has the best top cover design and the one I planned to use.

I’ve now shifted focus to other hive components using CAD/laser cutting, as I’m not convinced the long hives will work well where I am geographically now (Canberra). I was confident they would have worked well where I was in Queensland, but unfortunately didn’t have the time to test it.

This is purely a hobby for me, no laser cutting or cad , just some tools in the shed and Bunnings down the road, so I will continue with the horizontal hive, design next 6 weeks and then my build, then my rebuild, then my minor adjustments and then the bees, I only have the one hive so I am not under a great deal of pressure
Cheers

Following the discussion, have been exploring many different options … horizontal long hives, layens, lazutin, tall vertical hives (like Warre) and have come down to a design I think is like what you are talking … a Layens hive (basically) with 24 frames each 12 inches wide by about 20 inches deep with the honey super (6 flow frames) tacked on the end running perpendicular to the brood box. I’m thinking that will make it easier for the bees to get to the various flow frames from the brood box.

Randy, I had one long box with a divider in the middle and 13 frames each side ( brood) then queen excluder then 3 flow frames running parallel to brood frames. Mine did not work! I think the problem was in part due to the volume of space vs the size/ number of bees in the hive vs the ambient temperature ( I did use follower boards to keep size if space to a minimum). Randy I am not sure of your temp patterns in Texas especially at night but temperature might be one of the things to consider.
Anyway, good luck with your project and would appreciate you advising of your progress cheers
Jeff

@Semaphore , can I ask how your adapted long lang has gone? Did your bees take to the flow frames well, going the same direction as the regular frames?
I’m in Kentucky so, not the mild climate of San Fran. :wink:
(Apologies if this conversation was continued somewhere else.)

Hopefully @Semaphore drops past to answer your question, it has been a while since we have seen him. If you use the search function with both horizontal hive and long Lang you will get a bunch of returns where people report on the success of their long hives with flow frames.

I certainly like mine

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