Cost comparison

The Fund raising may have gained $12,000,000 US + but the Cedar and Flow Team are not earning all of that - The company turnover minus expenses of research, raw materials, production, packaging, delivery, employees, office, solicitors (lawyers), marketing, filming, website production, contracts, patents, the list is endless all have to come from the money earned - the Funding was specifically set up to put a factory and equipment together.

The Turn over may be $12,000,000 but the costs will be up there in the millions as well - anybody with a little sense and business acumen will not automatically assume The Flow team are Millionaires over night - it doesn’t work that way.

@Valli I’m well aware of the principles and practices of business Valli and at no time did I presume or intimate that Stu or Cedar became instant millionaires. I just pointed out that they had the resources to execute their stated objectives.

Perhaps I’m mistaking the tone of your posts.

Hi Ken,

I looks like we are jumping all over you. I’m sorry the thread took this turn. The idea for a demonstration hive sounds great. Showing a variety of ways to do something is a good way to get people thing about the whole topic and makes it more interesting.

Don’t think that the response of “It’s to expensive for what it is” is isolated to areas with a lower income level. I live in San Francisco, one of the most expensive cities in the world. And the most common thing I hear is exactly what you are hearing;
“Interesting but it will never take off, it costs to much.”

We build Teslas here in the Bay Area and while they are developing one of the most successful lines of production cars with long range electric capacity, no one would ever suggest that they be used in a program in a rural outback that currently has no motorized transportation. They may lead to mass market production with developments that draw from what they are creating for these very expensive cars.

Hopefully, down the line, what we learn from the Flow Hive may lead to a broader more accessible method of bee keeping for everyone. I am hoping at least ; -)

1 Like

@sara Thanks for that, my faith is restored :slight_smile: Yip, it’s going to be interesting to see what develops from here as there is always someone who will try to improve any new innovation. This is, as far as I know, the first really significant innovation in bee-keeping since the Langstroth was developed.

The Kenyan top bar hive was specifically designed for emerging economies, and poorer communities to teach beekeeping. They can be constructed with basic lumber and without power tools. I would focus some of your attention on that style of hive for your area.

1 Like

@kenstrang Sorry Ken I was just jumping to the defence of the Flow team - several people have taken the attitude (publicly as well as on this forum) that because the project did so well then the team have money to splash and expect them to suddenly fund bee research and stop the use of neonics yadda yadda yadda…

I was only trying to put the cost of a Flow hive and the work that has gone into it in perspective.

I’m all for helping rural and poorly funded projects and I contribute where I can, but I do believe strongly that these subsistence communities need to work and be shown the way rather than have money thrown at them.

Hence the Fish reference

@Valli we’re on the same page with regard to aid for the rural poor, the current version of handing out food is not sustainable and, in fact, actually enslaves the poor…unfortunately this enslavement is part of the ‘‘one percenters’’ agenda.
Gee, I was attacked with such vigour from so many sides I was starting to believe that the Flow team have employed trolls to shoot any form of criticism down.

@adagna yeah I have heard about them and I am trying to get my hands on one, or at least the plans thereof. Thanks Adam.

@kenstrang, We welcome everyone’s feed back and I apologise for the criticism’s of your concerns.
I agree it probably is something that won’t take off in developing countries yet, like any new piece of technology it will take time for the price to come down and be a little more accessible for everyone. I guess throughout most of Africa, labor is cheap and importing products is expensive, as a labor saving device it makes more sense in developed countries rather than developing countries.

I know Stu is especially interested in supporting projects in developing countries and most of the team have been involved in environmental and social activism. Hopefully as we get established we will have time to offer even more support to developing countries and bee preservation projects.

I’m glad to hear you have received your Flow Hive and hope to hear more about how it goes for you.

I feel it’s a bit like saying BMW’s aren’t for developing countries.
There is a product, and if people choose to buy it they can, if they don’t want to, then they don’t have to.
We all have choices in the world. That’s what makes us conscious human beings.

In regards to waterproofing, the western red cedar is proven to be long lasting and durable only with a coating of natural tung oil (cheap), that saves some of the costs of treating the wood, and replacing the hives further on down the track.

Flow provides modification templates online for those who want to buy a few Flow Frames and modify an existing hive - home made, or bought from elsewhere - http://www.honeyflow.com/faqs/modifying-a-langstroth-box-for-flow-frames/p/143#a1

The cost comparison has been discussed on other threads in the forum, for example - Cost of Flow Hives

The consumer has to weigh up the costs and see if it is an appropriate product for them.
Labour + harvesting equipment, etc, vs time/labour savings + no harvesting equipment required.

In the end, maybe it’s better for a community project etc., to have share harvesting equipment, and save on costs that way. And as always, it’s just something that needs to be weighed up on an individual basis.

Hopefully Flow can make this product as accessible to everyone as they possibly can, but due to it just having been crowd funded, paying for patents, setting up manufacturing, staff, even a legal team due to copyright issues, cheap knock-off’s, etc., profit margins aren’t known exactly yet, and all this has to be determined to make sure the company can remain viable.
Then we can see where they go from there.