Do You Reverse Your Hive Bodies in Spring?

Still really new to beekeeping. We use a double brood chamber here. I will have to find where i was reading on here to know all the details. But i have in my notes. "Dont shift frame direction or position. " can’t remeber exactly but i recall that the bees have paths they have made between frames for travel and air flow. there was also somthing showing a diagram of adding a second brood box and moving some of the frames up. Its possible i read it wrong but everyone was saying not to do it. The bees will fill that area when they are ready. I dont really know personally, just going off of what i read.
I super happy about this thread. I needed this information and didnt even know it.

This is true, but applies mainly to when you are lifting out frames for inspection - it’s best to make sure you replace frames in the original order and position, unless you have a specific goal such as what @Doug1 and @ABB describe. Those goals are of course always within healthy parameters for the bees and seasonal context.

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Well thats good to know. I dont feel so bad now. :rofl:
I have been being super meticulous during inspections to make sure i put it all back exactly the same. Was starting to think i do it all ocd like for no good reason. So my brain isnt broken. I did see marking frames position and direction. :crazy_face:

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Wizard

That’s not such a bad idea when you are starting out and when a hive is weaker…a brood nest disruption may hinder buildup.

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Thanks so much @Doug1! Very helpful to get your input and experience here. I’m feeling like going down to 1 brood box feels like a gamble for me…I’d be afraid I’d misjudge the flow timing. Maybe I’ll pay attention this year and think about it for the future.

I appreciate your thoughts on the reversing hive bodies - we’re going to have a beautiful warm weekend so I’m looking forward to getting into the hive.

Cheers, Karina

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Level up! Second season with the ladies isnt the same as year 1. :partying_face:

Since they are still young are my swarm chances low this year?

So excited to see how busy it gets in there this spring. Its gonna be epic.

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I can answer this as a first year beek.
“It depends”.

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Thats pretty vague. :rofl::crazy_face::metal:

Yeah, that is as far as I can go with that answer. More experience would give you the answers you need. All I can think of is what type of bee do you have? How strong is the hive coming out of winter? Other than that, I have no idea.

It hadnt crossed my mind until that very moment. Did a little reading about year 2. Apparently it’s a hold on to your britches year. Looks like a great year to try the hive body swap. Was looking closer at the weather and will most likely be trying this monday. Trees are in full bloom here and many more to come, very soon. :crossed_fingers: no swarms.

@Eva and @Doug1 mainly covered the idea. We do something for a specific purpose. That is where many “how-to” books have a weak point. They describe seasonal works but rarely give enough information about how this particular step is helping to achieve a specific goal. What fundamental rules it is exploiting to have an effect? Still, these books are useful for beginners to get a grasp on techniques but fundamental knowledge (bee biology) is still necessary.

Speaking about double brood chambers. What I was talking about is single vs multiple box beekeeping systems. Single box - it is a time of 12-frame Dadant hives where frames were larger too. It is a literary single box thing where bees are being kept, honey harvested from, (+supers if there is a serious nectar flow), winter nest reduction done by removing frames. This system is still alive and kicking for those who use horizontal hives. Dadant hives themselves lost popularity because they are still not large enough to handle strong colonies but large enough to break beekeepers’ backs if used for multiple box system. Plus later it was found that bees can achieve better thermoregulation on shorter Langstroth FD frames. From there, beekeepers went back to Langstroth hives Dadant meant to replace with his system. But to compensate even smaller size of the Langstroth box, a multi-box system was introduced. One of the advantages is the ability to do manipulations not using separate frames but whole boxes. That is where are you at the moment. You don’t need to form a winter nest as in the pictures a have posted above. You may simply put a box of honey frames on top of your brood box (ideally with frames of pollen on sides) for wintering and walk away. Come spring, the lower box will be empty and your nest will be in the warmer top box where the food was. It is still warmer there and the colony will be reluctant to move down for a while. To force them to use available space you will reverse boxes and the queen will move up to the warmer part again to start laying.

But, as we already know from the authors above, there are those pesky caveats and limitations. If you are willing to precipitate, can you tell what do you think may prevent you from reversing the boxes? We were talking warmth and thermal regulation in the long boring post above :slight_smile:

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Under my circumstances, queens run out of fertilized eggs after 1 1/3 seasons and are then replaced… and in this part of the world, young queens swarm much less than over wintered queens.

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@Wizard my overwintered colonies have started swarm prep by mid-March each year. I just split one in fact - I put feed in and a cozy on it because we have such iffy weather now with a couple of nights in the teens again.

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Yeah. I had to add a second box to the hoover. The ladies were not as packed in the flow. That was a few weeks ago. It is looking like tuesday is going to be the ideal day for inspection. Fairly confident flow is ready for a super. Gonna do the hive body swap flop at the same time.

I’m going to leave my wrap on until the nights are consistently over 40.

Bees got a dusting of snow last night, it’s 26°F (-3°C) out now and they are still milling around the entrance impatiently so I guess they’ve got hungry mouths to feed. Or, it’s super crowded and there’s no where else to stand/cluster.

When I opened up last week they were 10 frames across but no sign of swarm prep… Lots of honey, maybe a frame-worth of pollen, lots of BIAS so I didn’t think I needed to feed them, thought that might just encourage swarm behavior…

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Yup, I wouldn’t be feeding a strong overwintered colony now that pollen is abundant and the flow is starting.

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All winter i have seen both my hives finding different types of pollen. Was not expecting that at all. When i inspected a few weeks ago they were both low on honey but they were actively bringing in nectar. I have another empty hive ready to go incase it looks like i need to do split. The flow hive has a young queen that was started from a package with foundationless brood frames. I am thinking that they are not ready for a split just yet and reversing the hive bodies/adding a super will give them what they need this season. Im only allowed 4 hives because i am in the city on a quater acre. Not trying to rush a split.

Okay, did a quick inspection today. The flow hive had the top brood chamer completely full of honey and brood and nothing in the lower box. The hive was packed with bees, both boxes. Did the brood chamber swap and added the super today. :raised_hands:

The hoover hive is still working on the second brood box i added 3 weeks ago, about 20% filled. However, they were also packed and filling the roof cavity. Should i add a super?

Did you have any hive weights last summer/fall/winter? How much of the honey they had in there was from this spring vs. leftover stores from last fall?

I got another weight on my hive today and the whole assembly was down to 71lbs, down from 97 after I finished feeding them in October. Only 26lbs means they have at least half of their stores left, all in a single box.

The flow is on here in Ohio mainly with maples first then in the next few weeks so many flowering trees so I think the hive will start gaining weight again in the next week.

I know you’ve been saying that beekeepers in your area use doubles but if you’re not opposed to feeding during an extended dearth or in the fall, you might consider singles. Not sure how far you are from Kamon Reynolds or how much your surrounding vegetation differs but he has some videos on single brood boxes in TN. I think he’s just a little ways south west of you down 75.

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I am thinking i can get away with single brood boxes too just because of my peculiar location. Didnt do any hive weights except by hand. Definitely had littlento none leftover. I lifted both hives regularly throughout winter and felt them getting very light, so light that i fed one hive a frame of honey. The first day i could inspect i did and both hives were actively collecting nectar from somewhere. Offered more of last year’s honey and they ignored it. I am within close proximity to the university of Tennessee College arboretum. Also located in the direct center of the city. Nobody within foraging distance have bees, according to the register. It also turns out to be the the least windy place in the usa, added bonus, according to Google. In general though, the rain almost always splits and goes around us and it’s always 2 to 10 degrees warmer here than everywhere else near-by, and the businesses plant a lot of flowering plants and trees.

The 10 frame hoover definitely had more weight than the double brood 8 flowhive frame setup at the start of the season, but i did feed the hover a frame of honey early on (late February) it definitely saves a lot of work having 1 brood chamber. My next purchase will be the 7 flow frame hive set. I would feel much more comfortable with a full size 10 frame brood box. Hindsight is 20/20 :see_no_evil: no matter how much i read its never enough. :crazy_face::rofl:

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