reading around last night I found the following on the net:
"Ultimately they died of heat or suffocation. What we tend to forget is that this time of year
there is already six or seven frames of capped brood that are generating heat (in a single) and supers are filled with honey. There is only a small 3/8 to 1/2 inch space between frames and 3/4 above the bottom board. We then stuff 60 thousand bees into those small spaces and close them up. Theyâll fit but the air canât circulate. Worse yet, the bees move toward any screens to get fresh air while heat rises. suffocating the bees at the top. The problem is more acute when the nights are hot and humidity is higher. I learned this the hard way. When I move I at least add an empty super w/o frames for air space and staple screen over the hole in the top cover along with an entrance screen. I have also made full screen tops for moving when temps are over 90 or hives have huge numbers.
I leave them wide open over the top screen. I bend a 3 inch strip of hardware cloth and slide it in the entrance, place an empty super w/o frames above whatever boxes the bees are already working, then a full screen on the top. I strap that together with a ratchet tied down. I primarily do this when the weather is 85-90 or warmer and/if they will be shut up for more than a few hours. (for short local moves I close the entrance and move) In some cases Iâll do the same but instead of a full screen on the top Iâll staple a screen over the hole in the inner cover and transport without outer lid. Most of the time this approach would probably suffice. The general rule I go by is that if there are enough bees to beard up on the outside when it is hot then it is too many bees to shut up inside. I learned the hard way many years ago that it is better safe than sorry."
that pretty much sums up exactly what I did- and what I should have done. From now on Iâll either move at night- waiting for a cool night- and/or I will make some screened lids or âventilated supersâ.
@Dan2 yes- it was unusually hot very early in the morning- however the hives were inside a wagon with the aircon on. I have a feeling that they were already suffering overnight- probably bees congregated near the entrance blocking the airflow. The day before I had seen a nice beard on that hive and that should have been the warning that told me not to transport them as is.
Just today it occured to me that I had an empty âstickyâ flow super that would have been perfect to put on the hive. It would have doubled the room the bees had. A local beekeeper said that transporting them with a super of stickies is good as so many bees can fit into all the empty cells on the combs.
I have moved already 5 hives before these two- longer distances sometimes with no issue at all. It all came down to the strength of that hive. Obviously it is always going to be a story of âbetter safe than sorryâ.
Thanks for all the kind words and advice everyone.
Jeff- this is something I have wondered about- bees begging their way into other hives. I read somewhere that if a colony has collapsed and there are only a handful of bees left- say in the case where you have laying workers- that one option is to dump those bees onto the ground. The idea was that they would beg their way into the first colony they could find and have a chance of surviving. I have been wondering how much that actually happens- or if they are attacked and driven off.
Yesterday morning when I did pick up that hive there were about 12 bees that were outside the screened entrance trying to get back in. I brushed them off- and put an empty nuc box with a little honey where the hive had been. When I returned in the afternoon and looked in there there were no bees inside- so those dozen had gone somewhere else- hopefully having begged their way into one of my other hives.
Now with the damaged hive sitting up in the hills- assuming the brood is mostly dead- and that only 20% of bees remain- my hope is that they will be accepted into the hive beside them. They have huge resources from the damaged hive so could fill up with honey to bring as a gift to the other hive. I am thinking that the strong hive wonât be able to resist the damaged hive and will be robbing it all out today. I am hoping that in that confusion the survivors will end up blending in with the attackers and will all move over to the good hive. Itâs just a hope I know⌠there is probably a grim war being waged right now.
Hi Jack, itâs best not to think about what could be happening in your absence.
I know that returning bees with a load of honey will be readily accepted. I use that knowledge often to my advantage.
Iâm still thinking that 20% of a strong colony would be enough to stand alone, with a little assistance by way of the odd frame of brood. Plus give them a chance to make a new queen, if they need to.
Anyway youâll know more when you return. Iâm guessing that the 20% could still be in the damaged hive, cleaning it out, maybe. If thatâs the case, youâll need to remove the brood frames with mostly dead brood, or even all of them & replace them with fresh brood from the other hive.
Hi Jack,
Youâd have to consider yourself pretty unlucky, given that you were transporting them in an air-conditioned vehicle.
As usual, the Australian Beekeeping Guide (Goodman and Kaczynski) has it covered.
Page 47 ⌠âBees get excited when the hive is closed and can generate considerable heat as they panic and attempt to get outâ⌠and further, " Hives develop what is known as âsappyâ conditions when brood rearing conditions are good. This condition is caused by heat generated by brood, a steamy atmosphere created by the feeding of larva, and by ripening of nectar and storage of honey. Bees travel much better if they are allowed to ripen nectar before hives are moved. Unripened nectar can splash out of the cells and onto bees during movement of hives, causing excited bees, generation of more heat and drowned or smothered bees. Many beekeepers prefer to close their hives in the early morning before daylight while it is still cool and the nectar has been ripened".
that is so true Jeff- I have been trying to make a deliberate effort to not think about yesterdayâŚ
I was kind of hoping the bees may be able to clean up those frames - but I guess Iâll have to replace them?
The 20% was just a guesstimate- itâs really hard to say what the actual toll was.
I may end up combing one of my small nucs with fresh young queens to that hive.
again- that quote pretty much sums up everything I did wrong. that only one hive was affected - when they both had identical equipment/ventilation- just goes to show it was all a matter of the bee numbers in the box. I feel sure the nectar played a role.
Sorry you have had a hard lesson Jack. I know how Iâd feel and after reading so many of your posts I know how much you care about your bees. Thanks for sharing so we can all be careful if we need to move our bees.
Maybe I should elaborate on how heat works in a confined hive. If you confine bees they have trouble cooling the hive because they canât haul water. So another trick on a hot day is to hose them off so the evaporation of the water will cool the hive. My bottom boards are all blocked so I can have a top entrance so they work for covers as well as bottoms. Hosing a little (only a little) water in the top (misting it) can give them a bit of water to work with to cool things. Also when bees are jostled they get agitated and when they get agitated they make more heat. Huber measured this and concluded that a lot of the brood temperatures that had been recorded in the past were inaccurate because of this. So you load them up on a hot day. They canât get any water to evaporate to cool. The trip bounces them around which gets them agitated which makes more heat. It all adds up.
Re bees begging their way in to another hive, I moved three of mine about a month ago, further into the hills. On first drive to site I checked how far the drive was, 5.3km. I moved the hives & opened them, on return home at each original hive site was a number of flying bees, they beat me back home! Only about 5 for one hive but for another it was about 50. I measured on Google Earth, âas the Bee fliesâ, 2.97km⌠Anyway I watched the returned bees on and off throughout the day & the majority were eventually accepted into nearby hives. There seemed to be the odd one or two that were found to be unacceptable by new colony and were disposed of, perhaps they didnât bring a good enough âofferingâ with them? It also seemed to make a difference as to how many interlopers approached the hive together, they seemed to have a much better chance if one or two at most at a time. Makes sense really, as larger numbers could be supposed to be robbers?
Hi there, I read this thread before moving 2 hives from Brisbane to Byron Bay recently (2 hours). After reading it I changed my plan from first thing in the morning, to in the evening. Both hives were a brood box and a reasonably full super of honey. One hive with the corflute removed to open bottom screened board and the other with corflute in (propolised in). I had put window screen mesh over both hives the day before the move to be opened for the drive. I had checked the weather and thought I had done as much as I could to prepare. We set off with hives on the back of a trailer, when an hour into the drive the heavens opened and it absolutely poured with rain (into the open topped hives) until we arrived at the new site. When the hives were located I took the mesh excluder off the front entrance of my crankier hive, and they were CRANKY! Having no idea how the hives fared I just left them to settle down overnight and went back in the morning. Either through good planning or dumb luck both hives seemed fine and working away by mid morning. Iâll go back down this weekend (2 weeks) to check on their progress and hopefully empty the honey supers for the spring flow!
well- I am glad my sad story might help others to avoid making the same mistake. Recently when I have moved hives I have done it in the evenings. I expect I wonât always have that option so will make some screened lids for early morning moves. If a hive is very strong and crowded- i will add an extra super for transit too.
Just to update on what happened last year: that colony totally died unfortunately. All the brood was killed- and the hive next door robbed out most of the honey. I had to remove all the frames and cut out all of comb and render it all down: an icky job. I hope some of the bees managed to beg their way in to the other hive.