I know this has been covered extensively, but just wanted to get a nod from the community.
Background: First year beekeeper. Went pretty well overall. Box o’ bees ordered and installed, got a good first harvest, then they even refilled for what was going to be a second harvest but…:
I had no problems with my first harvest after reading the tips and tricks, such as opening a frame in stages (not only to stop an airgap from happening, but also because it was physically easier). and closed them up. I was very thorough. I inserted the key, closed each frame in about 20% increments and repeated the process 5 to 6 times, even aligning the key along the left inner edge, center and right inner edge along the way.
Problem: Leaky frames. At this point it’s time to remove the super as the nectar is gone, and I also have mites I need to attend to. So, I’ll harvest (drain the super completely) and get the treatment going.I read somewhere about loose wires? I wouldn’t think a single harvest would account for that, but who knows. As you can see the honey is some of the frames IS pooling in the channel at the bottom, but when checking the tray it isn’t flooding so hooray for that.
Just looking for general thoughts and advise. Again, I know this is covered pretty well, just a bummer.
I had the impression from your other photos that honey had leaked into the tray. Apart from that, all I can suggest is to make sure that the leak back gaps are clear. A meat skewer would do the trick. I would do one frame at a time, so as to not overburden the bees with too much honey to clean up at the same time.
In relation to “flooding”, that usually happens during harvest, on account that some cappings will rupture, causing honey to flood onto the brood, and into the tray if the flooding is bad enough.
As Jeff has said the leak back gap is blocked. Twist the cover and it should uncap them enough for the bees to be able to access and clear what is in the tubs.
Why is there nectar/honey in the tub? The bees haven’t sealed the cells properly before filling. This happens sometimes when nectar is deposited in heavy flows.
So as I understand it, @Geomancer, you haven’t done another harvest yet but the honey in the channels is collecting there/trickling out of the cells from inside the frames? Checking because it would be normal to see some in the channels after a harvest, especially if you didn’t wait long enough for it all to drain out of the tubes into your jars - and/or of course if the leakback openings are blocked as Jeff and Adam said, AND if the hive is not tilted enough/at all for the honey to move back and down into the openings. Just wanted to mention that because I have overlooked tilting the hive before harvesting once or twice (I have classics on solid bottom boards sans built-in slant) and this is what happened. When I realized and tilted it after the fact, the bees were able to clear the pooled honey within hours.
About the wire tension, Flow has noted that sometimes they can loosen during shipment. This video shows the steps to tighten the wires -
@Eva@JeffH@AdamMaskew Update: You were 100% right. I drained all the frames today and they has sealed up the leak gaps. First thing I’ll look for in the future - thanks!
After draining the frames, I removed the Super and put it about 50 ft away from the hive, around dusk. It’s been about 3 hours and I would have though those bees in the super would return to the hive…they have not. At this point it would seem I’ll have to leave it as is overnight and the in the early morning remove each frame, walk it back to the hive…shake/brush any remaining bees off, repeat for all frames and anything left in the Super and THEN remove the super to a secured location (where the bees cannot reach it) to be inspected, cleaned and stored for next season. Thoughts?
P.S. - I put the Apiguard in just after removing the Super, so crossing my fingers.
On dusk was probably too late for the bees to leave the super, on account that they probably wouldn’t find the entrance, however I frequently see bees returning home on dusk. An hour before dusk might have been a better idea. The good news is that the bees should survive the night, with all that honey to help keep them warm.
Glad to help! Another way to let the bees clean up the super before removing it is to put a temporary buffer between it and the brood box, so the bees regard it as disconnected from their main living space and don’t keep refilling it. I put the inner cover between the super and the brood box, and close it with the outer cover as usual. I believe @aussiemike likes to add some buffer-space by putting another empty medium box under the super, which is also good. My only caveat for this would be if temps are below 65f or so, since the added empty space would pull heat away from the brood area. But this way, it’s safe from robbers while your bees get the last bit of honey. This takes a day or two at most.
If you can, freeze the Fframes for 24-48 hours before putting them away for the season in a dry/cold place. I store mine back inside the super and use heavy parchment paper sandwiched at the top and bottom as a pest barrier.
Thanks guys. @JeffH Looks like you were right - No visible dead bees, but they are all over it and active this morning. No pests (ants, flys etc) so…I’m going to leave it exactly as is for the day and see if they vacate by THIS evening. Any stragglers will be unceremoniously return to the hive by…“a firm but gentle hand” (ha).
@Eva This is perfect. This is my first year, so I was planning on wrapping each frame in plastic wrap etc. (can’t remember where I read this - maybe the official how to) and then wrapping the whole thing in plastic (the super). Either way I need to take some time to inspect the frames, clear the leak backs/gaps, check the wires etc.
Will let you guys/gals know how it goes in a day or two. I’m sure this will mean some robbing today, but I did already empty the Super yesterday so not the worse situation.
I agree with @Eva that you could have lifted the flow super above the inner cover, or inner mat, this will allow the bees to clean the “sticky” frames, using it in the hive it came from. The inner cover/mat stops the bees from storing more and ensures there is not a robbing event.
If you don’t mind the sticky frames you can also use an escape board on the hive. The bees will leave the honey super and not work out how to get back into it for 24-48 hours.
Once you have the frames, and not bees, I’d give them a good check over, including the wire tension Eva mentioned. If there is no pollen or honey you can then just wrap, or if you want to make very sure place them in a freezer for 48hrs or more to kill any wax month and then store.
Hi Chris, you’re welcome. You wont get any stragglers by the end of the day, however I’m 99% sure that you’ll get a significant amount of action with bees from other hives cleaning up the frames, which you should already know about by now (being 11 hrs since your post).
I wanted to give an update and also ask some questions for all.
@Eva - I was wondering why you suggested freezing them! @AdamMaskew already knew. Thanks!
Update: I took about 3 days to let the Super, and frames sit in my garage (no ants, then and so far-whew!). This was mostly because the bees would NOT give up. I would pop the garage door in the morning literally to exit to take my daughter to school and within 60 seconds, bees where there. I estimate between 10-20, decreasing by 5-8 per day. After third day, they gave up. During the days and evenings I would open the door and close it immediately, allowing them to escape (some came right back in) and they seem to have gotten the message,
Questions:
I’m looking at the design of the flow frames and…what exactly does the wire do? I’m not “dumb”, but perhaps I’m not seeing why the wire and the tension it apparently provides is really needed? The frames (all individual columns) seem to slide vertically and the top/bottom sit within a “tray”*. If it’s to keep the columns all “squeezed together”…wouldn’t a solid tray (little or no flex) on the top and bottom do this?
Why are the trays mentioned above…sectioned? Why aren’t they just a solid piece? They don’t move when using the open/close mechanism of the frames…?
I’ve uploaded some photos (labeled)
Photo one: Why are the majority of my frames containing full honey cells? I took the whole super in after “a full harvest” in which I opened the frames fully (20% at a time) and let them sit in the open position for 1 full hour, then closed and let them sit for 30 further minutes.This, to me, would seem to indicate the cells are stuck closed, which…ok…I’m disconcerted because it would seem the columns are getting stuck…REALLY often. See below.
Photo 2: When I had asked earlier about the leaky frames - here is a main contributor. Note the arrow. I noticed when inspecting my 7 flow frame box, 6 of the 7 frames had (multiple) columns stuck in the open position. I DID end up using the official FlowHive video and method to un-stick them, but I am pretty concerned. What’s the point if every harvest we have to remove the frames and correct the stuck ones - 1 or two… ok, but at current I had 27 stuck columns from a brand new hive construction with a single harvest.
Photo 3: Honey in the channel. I had previously stated that yes - the leak backs were blocked it turns out they were not. None of them were. Less of a question than a curiosity. The question here is: The Flowhive instructions have us use the levels built in for proper slope. I had noticed people mentioned in several posts adjusting the slope from “usual” times to harvesting. I’ll go back, but it seemed at the time of construction that the “6 degree” slope was supposed to be permanent. Did I misread/misinterpret? Maybe this is why honey was in the channel?
Sorry for the long post - just trying to learn and understand it all.
I can’t answer any questions about the design of the frames, however I can share what worked for me while attempting to harvest honey from flow frames for a customer.
I had great trouble getting the frames to open & close, on account of some crystallized honey that I suspect was the cause of the problem. What I did was hold the key in the open position permanently. After about 5 minutes, the frame slowly opened. I did the same thing to close them again.
In relation to the leak back gap, it must have been blocked, otherwise the honey would have emptied back into the brood box.
One observation I have made on more than one occasion is fermented honey in the channels. Therefore I would advise to do a sniff test on each frame before harvesting from them.
