I recently had to do the same thing with a package I got a little over a week ago. The queen that arrived with the package was dead. So I pulled a frame of eggs from another hive and put it in with the package. I contacted the package supplier and he got me a new queen. When the new queen arrived and I pulled that frame with eggs I placed in the hive and it had four queen cells started. Not wanting to risk the hive still continuing with the queen cells and introducing a mated queen I pulled out that frame with some nurse bees and put it into a NUC. Then I put a pulled comb frame in the hive that I installed the package into. Waited until the next day and then put the new queen in that hive.
I suppose you could destroy the queen cells but I look at them as a gift. It wont be long before colonies will be swarming in my area so if that happens then I should have another laying queen in the NUC to put them into.
Hi Joe, it sounds like you are getting on top of it.
When you say you have a queen that lays a few frames of workers & the rest drones. Is that drones in worker comb or drone comb? If itâs in drone comb, you might have to remove the drone comb & replace it with fully drawn worker comb or frames containing foundation.
Jeff, I would say drones in worker comb. I agree I might scrape it off and let them rebuild it. I just pinched that queen and have the new queen in her cage but did not remove the cork on the candy yet.
I put a new queen in her cage in the small hive and pulled the cork on the candy end. I also removed the dozen queen cells in it.
I did the shake method on both worker laying hives. It is a strange experience. The bees seem to go into swarm or package bee mode. They were flying like crazy but were not agressive. The first ones back to the hive were fanning trying to lead the rest of the bees back. You could tell there was a lot of chaos. Many tried to return to the wrong bigger hive that had the weak queen that laid a lot of drones. Some clustered where I shook them out. I took a shovel and launched them into the air to force them to scatter and fly.
I did not remove the corks from cage yet. I want to give them a day or so then pull the cork and let them eat the candy.
Well done Joe, the only drawback with the shake method is you lose any nurse bees that still havenât done an orientation flight. Last time I did a shake, I just shut my mind to the nurse bees I lost.
Can you post some photos of the drones in worker comb because you donât sound 100% certain. When I gave a queen the flick because I thought she was poorly mated, she was laying a mixture of worker & drones on the same worker comb. Not say, 3 frames of workers & the rest drones like you describe.
If I have an excess of drone comb in the brood, Iâll cut it out completely & replace it with freshly drawn worker comb or fresh foundation.
My only hesitation is the cappings are tall like drone but almost smooth like workers. As big as they are I am 80% sure they are drone but I have never seen drone anywhere close to smooth. Not as smooth as worker cells but close. Nor have I seen a drone pattern perfect and centere like worker cells. I thought I would wait and let some hatch and confirm.
I allowed this hive to requeen after I had done a split but it was so cold right into May I am sure she did not mate well, or at all since she never layed any workers.
I donât have a pic. If I get a chance I will try.
So what you experienced with the shaking was perfectly normal the only thing I would have done different would not to throw them in the air with a shovel but to let them decide when to fly.
But you are heading in the right direction Joe. I would place the queens in their cage into the hives with the cork still in place for her to be well accepted then take the cork out after a couple of days. The bees will care and feed her.
I did the shovel throw because it was about to rain a lot within the hour. Suppose to rain right through Saturday. I might pull the corks tonight or tomorrow depending if there is a break in the rain then let them eat through the candy.
When I use cages with candy in them, I pull the corks immediately. It still takes the bees a day or so to eat through, and if they were not aggressive to the new queen within 10 minutes when I put the cage in the hive, I have never had a problem. I only leave the corks in for a day or two if there is no candy in the cage, and that only happens if I get the queen from a non-commercial source, or with delayed delivery/introduction. I know that your situation was a little different from normal re-queening, as you had laying workers, so your method might be better. But just for a bit more perspective, that is what I do.
Saves messing with the hive twice, which can help with acceptance of a funny-smelling new queen.
Thanks Dawn. Yes, the one hive I pulled the cork right away. The laying worker hives are the issue. these were packages that I released the queens after one day thinking packages accept queens quickly but both killed their queens. As we have discuss i suspect bad packages with laying workers. For normal queen replacement I try to remove the prior queen 8-24 hours ahead and then install the queen and let them eat the candy.
If I get a break in the weather I am going to pull the corks tonight. Fingers crossed. Hope the shaking reset them.
@Plutoman15 This year is the first year I got packages. The supplier that I got them from put had placed the queens in the packages the day before they were delivered. I donât know if that is common practice but that is what happened in my case. Although he did provide instructions to leave the queen in the cage for three days prior to releasing or adding candy. I have a feeling that could possibly be why they killed yours right away. Although the one thing I will say is that the bees from the package are some of the calmest bees I have ever seen.
Hi Joe, that looks like drones in drone size comb to me. I could be wrong. Is that plastic foundation that the bees have built drone comb over? If you count the cells across the frame there should be in excess of 80 worker cells.
I think it might be foundationless. I have never seen solid drones like that before. I mostly use foundation but I do have some foundationless. I might swap this out and make them start over.
Yes that sounds like a good plan. Do you have any chooks to feed them to? There is nothing wrong with a queen that lays workers in worker cells & drones in drone cells.
Because you are still in spring, the bees may continue to build more drone comb if you present them with foundationless frames. Foundation would be much better, in my view.
Itâs a terrific learning curve for you at this point in time. Good luck with it, cheers
John, every package that I have received has the queen in a cage in the middle of the package. That is why some directly release the queen when installing because the workers have already spent a few days clustered on her. I released mine after 24 hours in the hive.
I saw eggs within 5 days of releasing the queen but I didnât look for her. The fact that all eggs were drones tells me either the queens were not mated or there were laying workers in the package and they killed my queens right away. My understanding is it take weeks for laying workers to develop. So I vote laying workers in package.
I have done 5-6 packages in my short 3 year career and have never had this happen before.
I enjoy installing packages because they are so calm and not aggressive. They are just bees looking for a new home and a queen to serve.
Ok, now I understand. Dawn has given you the way she does it and my way is a bit different with a little bit more time and effort. My way gives the colony a day extra time to accept the new queen but there is still a good chance she will be accepted by following Dawnâs suggestion. I just like to be certain.
Let us know how the queen goes after a few days Joe.
Regards
They certainly look like drone cells in the pics. It would be wise to take that frame out of the hive and fit a new frame of foundation if you have one, all that frame will ever produce is more drones.
Glad everything is finally going right for you.
Regards
Just for the record, I have used many different methods for requeening. My preference is as follows, but it isnât always possible (if you canât find the queen, for example):
Dispatch old queen the day before, giving the hive 24 hours to realize that it is queenless.
Inspect on the next day to ensure no queen cells (I have rarely found any by this point). If queen cells are found (look very carefully), destroy them.
Place the introduction cage, with cork removed and candy intact over an area of emerging brood. I use a rubber band for this, and depending on cage design, a frame may need to be removed to make space for the cage.
Observe nurse bee behaviour towards the caged queen. If they are not stinging or biting the cage, and they are trying to feed the new queen, you are good to go. If they are aggressive in anyway, take the cage out and wait another day.
Assuming they are not aggressive to the queen, close up the hive and wait around 3-4 days.
Inspect briefly, trying not to disturb the hive. Only 3 goals for this inspection. Make sure the cage is empty, if not, release the queen onto a frame of brood. Replace the frame you took out in step 3, if relevant. Look for eggs while you do this for a bonus, to know you have a new laying queen.
Now leave them for at least a week (unless you saw queen cells in step 6), and let the new queen get fully established.
