I have been babying the girls for awhile now and they were doing really well with Veroa under control ,1 mitre in last alcohol wash about a week ago
Anyway went to go check up on them and see what’s happening on the landing board etc and they were already up and swarming into a nearby tree , too high for me to try catch them and to be honest I’m still anew by beekeeper and probably would have messed it up without help etc etc
So here is the problem I can’t understand , I have now done a inspection 2 days after they swarmed
There is space in brood box
No issues with Verona mite
No queen cells at all
Did not see a new Queen ‘
So why did they pack up and leave , there is still a good number bees in the broad box with lava capped and uncapped all resources look good
Two wall frames in brood box have 3/4 honey storage
I took the super off and am harvesting all the honey
There is another half box on top of the brood box full of honey and honey comb
Hi Clive, if you can’t find any queen cells, the only other thing I can think of is that the colony has absconded, which means they have abandoned that hive for some reason.
If a colony can’t overwhelm hive beetle damage, that will trigger it to abscond. If there is a fermented smell in the hive, that can also lead to absconding. The only other reason I have found is not enough brood in the hive to hold the colony to the hive.
Hi Jeff
Thanks again for a prompt reply
The hive had no fermenting honey etc it was really good probably only seen about 5 hive beetle max
Over the last 2weeks I have maybe had the odd hive beetle 1 or two in the bottom tray with diatomaceous earth
I was in Europe for 3 weeks in Jan this year , we had a heatwave here of note on the Gold Coast for a couple of days apparently.
When I got back my bees had absconded but bounced back with a new queen and all was well but maybe now the hive has that genetic tendency to swarm ?
I have reached out to a queen breeder in Rockhampton that was given the number for , but he can only send one next Wednesday , would that be too late in your opinion?
I will call around tomorrow and see if I can get one sooner
Thanks
Clive
Hi Clive, the colony may have a tendency to swarm, however swarming is associated with swarm queen cells. If a colony absconds, it generally includes the whole colony. How many bees are left? I mean how many frames do they occupy? If the colony is low, a new queen may not be the answer.
If the colony has swarmed, it will have made provision for a new queen, which means it will be premature to consider buying a new one.
If the remaining colony has very young worker larvae, it can make a new queen if the swarming portion didn’t make provision for one.
Hi Jeff
Yes there is quiet a lot of young larvae
There are a lot of bees still left
Eight frames with bees on all
There is good stores of all the essentials
Good numbers of capped brood aswell
Would it not be better perhaps to get a new queen then the hive may not have a tendency to swam
How long can they go with out a queen ?
Unfortunately, this will become common as varroa spreads out. You’ll see swarming and absconding more than ever before. Even brand new mated queens will shoot through within weeks of installationk.
It’s not just varroa and SHB in the mix, but also the treatment chemicals. Some colonies are more sensitive than others to different chemicals, but make no mistake, bees do not like any chemical in the hive.
When you get past the hump of heavy reinfestation, swarming will likely continue even at unusual times. The old swarm control methods have lost much of their effectiveness. Queens will be poorly mated and quickly superseded due to low DCA drone numbers. The feral population used to provide drones for those DCAs. No ferals, no drones.
There is no single answer to the situation. Every colony is an individual reacting as they see fit, even if it leads to their demise which in the majority of cases it does.
Keep trying different things in search of a balance. Do the least amount possible that has a positive outcome. Things do improve after hump, but not as easy as pre-varroa.
Hi Mike
Thanks for that interesting info
I’m pretty new to this and have been treating my hive with bavarol and alternating with oxalic acid strips which have been effective with the Veroa but maybe this is the downside of chemicals also , in your experience would you buy in a new queen or let them do there thing , I was leaning to buying in a new queen as maybe the hive has already now got a swarm tendency as I mentioned before they had absconded or swarmed about 6 months ago .
They did produce a new queen themselves after that ,and she has left with half my bees , the brood box is still pretty stocked though
I did read they can go without a queen for 4-6 weeks but that’s probably pre Veroa?
Cheers
Keep an eye on Bayvarol. It’s one of synthetic treatments to which the new strain of varroa is resistant. It won’t take long before it fails in your area. Homemade OA strips tend to vaporise which can irritate the bees. The commercial strip, AluenCAP is 100% contact only with over 90% efficacy.
Bees only live up to 6weeks. Every day that passes without new brood production means more bees dying of old age and nurse bees getting too old to nurse. Leaving it to the bees to raise a new queen is risky. If they can find one day old worker larvae to turn into queens, it will be 16days before she emerges, a few days to be strong enough for mating flights if there’s any drones out there. Then it will take several days for her to begin laying. The old girls trying to feed new larvae no longer have hypopharyngeal glands capable of producing high quality brood food. Then 21days before new bees begin emerging.
By this time, you have a geriatric colony with some malnourished nurse bees. The long term outlook is not good. If you can find mated queens, buy one fast. If she swarms as I described before, replace her from a different supplier.
Good luck. You’ll become a better beekeeper by asking questions and trying new things until you find something that works for you. Always look for the reasons behind the ideas, instead of blindly following suggestions.
Hi Clive, a colony can go indefinitely without a queen provided we keep it stocked with fresh brood. Having said that, with fresh brood & no queen, the colony will commence producing a new one.
I resist buying new queens because I’m able to get my colonies to produce new ones with good traits. There is also a possibility that a colony can reject a new queen which turns into a waste of money. Do you have access to frames of brood that you can supply to the colony? A frame of brood with worker eggs is a good test to see if a colony is queenless or not. Check it after 4 days to see if they’re producing emergency queens.
Jeff there’s quite a lot of brood on the existing frames also some very small larvae too would that be sufficient
I could get some frames with more broad from my daughter or possibly someone in our area , is that just to bolster the number bees ?
Very small worker larvae would be sufficient if the colony wanted to make emergency queens. However if the colony is not attempting to make a new queen, you have to ask “why”. The obvious answer would be that the colony already has one in the pipeline.
Yes extra brood is always useful for boosting a population, however it also keeps a population of young bees going, which are needed as nurse bees.
Sometimes a weak queenless colony wont make queen cells on the first brood frame we supply, on account of not enough nurse bees. It’ll be a different story in about 10 days time with a second brood frame, because there will be nurse bees that emerged out of the first frame.
It’s worth noting that one full deep frame of brood will produce 3 frames covered in bees, which all start out as nurse bees. I added such a frame to a weak queen-rite colony the other day. The frame had a lot of emerging bees, so therefore it’s an instant boost to the colony.