No honey, new beekeeper

Rural south east Kansas, new beekeeper. Started with Nuc about 1st of May (after a lot of blossoms). Put in a few extra new frames to fill out base. After a 4-6 weeks added a feeder that replaced two empty frames. In retrospect probably put super on too soon, before the comb was built out in all new frames.

Haven’t fed them for 6 weeks. 6 weeks ago they were exploring the Super, linking the frames, but now (10/28/24) they are no longer doing anything in the super. Only a few bees there.

I checked the base and actually saw that one frame is still not built out completely. I also noticed that there’s little to no brood, and most of the comb appears black.

Saw a tiny little white/yellow worm on one frame. Can’t tell if the queen is there because don’t know how to recognize her with so many other bees around.

Still many many bees, but concerned that 1) there’s little if any brood, and 2) no honey. Will they actually make it through the winter? I suppose it’s time I take my super off anyway.

Any advice would be helpful. Attached one photo of one of the frames in the base from today. Would like to include more but only letting me upload one.

Welcome to the forum, Paul! I’m glad you posted - but I wish you’d joined back in spring so we could support you as you got started. There’s so much to learn and the clock starts ticking fast when you get your first colony :sweat_smile: Especially a nuc.

Feeding and supering are mutually exclusive, as a rule. If you have to feed, it’s to sustain or boost a weak or new colony or help a decent one survive hard times like winter months. So yes, putting a super on while feeding or even soon after is a no-go unless there is a sudden booming nectar flow and loads of workers to bring it in. Four to six weeks after your early May start would have been early to mid June, which is typically peak nectar flow in temperate regions like yours in Kansas and mine here in PA.

It’s also peak swarm season. So what I think happened is your healthy nucleus colony was right up to or at the point of preparing to swarm, and continued in that direction even though you gave them more space. Just a matter of bee timing/planning - usually very different from our desires or assumptions - that you will get the hang of with more learning and experience :+1: Colonies can swarm repeatedly, which results in dwindling honey stores and a critical shortage of workers, so nothing much gets done in the ‘parent’ hive. Sometimes a queen that’s raised to replace the one(s) that have left with the swarm(s) doesn’t get well mated or gets snatched by a bird and doesn’t return to the hive.

That’s the brood box (not base) in beekeeping terms :wink: Your pic was useful, thanks for posting it. I believe you’ll be able to put more photos in future posts now. I zoomed in on one definite and one possible queen cell on the frame you showed:



Did you notice this when you were inspecting - was it capped or open at the tip?

Bad sign of a pest incursion that will get worse with not enough workers. Without looking at it I don’t know if it’s beetle or wax moth larva. With no honey in your hive and very little or none to forage at this time of year your bees are probably starving, so not at their best in terms of patrolling the space.

Yes, remove the super asap. Whether the colony will make it is uncertain. Even if the queen cell is viable there won’t be time or enough drones around at this point for her to get mated before colder weather sets in. Your frame did have a lot of capped worker brood, but going on your mention of no (open) brood I doubt there’s an active queen present. You could see if you can buy a mated queen to introduce and possibly the colony will raise a decent amount of brood to boost the numbers and get through the winter. The workers being raised at this time of year need to be fatter than usual so they can help keep a survivable temperature while in cluster until spring. So if you want to give them a shot you’ll also need to feed, starting now and continuously until spring. I would recommend a combination of regular pollen patties and 2:1 simple syrup right now, to support a Hail Mary brood production. Then, you would switch to winter patties because they provide the carbs but with a lower protein content suited for winter survival:

https://www.betterbee.com/bee-feed/wp10-10lb-winter-patties.asp

This is also a critical time to get pests under control. There’s also the very good chance that your numbers have declined due to varroa mite infestation. None of the above will help them if you haven’t treated for mites or dealt with whatever laid the egg that produced that free ranging larva you saw.

I’d take everything I wrote as provisional, until you get a live experienced beek to come take a look with you. They can make the best assessment and guidance. Join a local beekeeping club and ask if someone can mentor you. They usually also offer beginner classes over the winter into early spring, so you can get more knowledge and some hands on practice under your belt before next season starts.

Wishing you good luck! And let us know how it goes from here :blush:

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Thanks so much, Eva. Tremendously helpful!
I’ve included a couple of other frame shots of it gives you any more info. I’ve looked for a beek out here, but I’m out in the boonies here, and didn’t want to make anyone drive a long ways. Now I know better.

Thanks again for your advice!

(still only allows me to upload one photo at a time so I will reply with one photo in each reply)

Last one- also with queen cells

Happy to help, Paul. Seeing more pics does help - unfortunately I have to take back what I said about lots of worker brood. Now I see that the capped cells are all honey stores, and from the looks of them they are pretty old so probably from the original hive the nuc came from. That dark polished look is from all the bee traffic walking across it.

That makes it tough to say whether it’s reasonable to buy a mated queen and recreate a colony. If you did that, it would stand a better chance with a couple frames of brood in all stages as well, and heavy feeding. So it depends what you’re up for and if you can get some help! Maybe a local beek who isn’t keen on driving out would he willing to FaceTime with you for a closer look?

Thanks, again, Eva. So from the looks of things, either the queen is missing, or sick? Does that happen with brand new Nucs? I suppose anything can happen…

One thing to add. Time of year. Queens stop laying in cooler climates over winter. In SoCal, my queens never stop laying. In the UK, they would stop by mid to late September. It will also depend on the strain of queen that you have. Carniolans stop laying in early fall, while Italians continue into late fall. With mutt queens, it could vary, but once it starts to get cold at night (<55°F) and the nectar flow has dropped off, most queens will stop laying.

Just because you aren’t seeing her, doesn’t mean she isn’t there. Unless I go on a specific hunt for a queen, I probably spot her less than 30% of the time during a routine inspection. The most important things for now are to get the super off, do a mite count and treatment, as @Eva suggested, and feed, feed, feed if they are to have a chance of making it through the winter.

:wink:

This might help too. Perhaps join them?

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Thanks, Dawn and Eva for all the advice. Trying to get tied in with a beekeeper who lives near the property so he can inspect the hive with me. In the meantime I’ll stop by beekeepers.com which is only a few miles from my house.

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