We have got our first Flow Hive 2 and now looking to buy some bees to fill itā¦
I think we might magically accumulating quite a bit of stuff on this beekeeping journey 
I guess that is one of the risks with the plastic excluder after a certain time or when handled roughly it is more prone to breaking. Good luck with the clean up Iām sure it seems daunting but once you start youāll get it done.
On a side night my hive are packing away nectar like no tomorrow. As long as there is no rain Iām getting about 1kg a day weight increase in my LL. Visually my 8f hive is doing just as well. It is a welcome change to having healthy, strong hives coming out of winter and ready for the first flows.
Adam
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Yesā¦that 800g-1kg increase per day is what prompted me to take a look last nightā¦
Iāve got a question to all on this forum and others from around the world that have had the issue of brood in flow frames or just an opinion to share (@jeffh, @Dawn_SD, @Rodderick, @skeggley, @adammaskew, @peter48, @imua00, @cedar, @Anon, @busso)ā¦
Do I actually need to pull the frames apart and clean out the cocoons and cells or would it be ok to just get the hive back in-order and let them re-use the flow frames without me cleaning them up?
(Scroll back up about 9 posts [Perth (WA, AU) Flowhives and honey flow] and youāll see that Iāve unexpectedly got brood in my flow frames).
Last night I was thinking Iād have to disassemble and clean the frames. However, this morning Iām thinking I could possibly get away without full disassembly and cleaning, just get the hive back in-order and queen back in the brood box only.
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Hi Alan, the two Flow hive users that i have had experience with had to breakdown their frames and remove the cocoons, this is not to say that you have to, but they had trouble open and closing the frames, as the cocoons where just too strong. But I say give it a go and see if you can open them, the earlier you tackle this the better.
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Thanks for asking for an opinion from me but when I got my Flow Hives the plastic QXās went straight into my recycle bin and all of my hives have metal QXās fitted. I learnt not to trust the plastic ones years ago. They plastic ones are cheap but prone to fail as they get older and become brittle.
So only on my thoughts for what it is worth it is likely the bees will clean out the cocoons and tidy up the Flow Frames before they use them for honey.
Cheers
@rodderick Thanks! Thatās what Iām hoping is the case. I figure if I can crack the cells than I should be able to avoid a full dissassemblyā¦ 
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@Rodderickās reply is very practical, but personally I would have to dismantle the frames. The problem is that the larvae poo outside the coccoon before sealing themselves in. In order for the Flow mechanism to work, you are going to have to tear the cocoons. That means honey will flow over the poo. 
Not appetizing for me, so I would be taking them apart. 
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Hiya mate, tough break with the brood in the Ff. I ditched the plastic qx in the first year.
I canāt speak from experience regarding brood in the frames, only logic, my logic. 
Any idea how long the queen has been laying in the frames?
To me itās all about whether the cocoons would break when the frames are cracked, if they donāt break there is only one way for the honey to exit the cell. Iād assume the brood would have been nearer the bottom of the Ff. One cocoon would probably break, more, maybe not. Remember, all the honey above that cell needs to pass through that cell to exit to the trough below.
Personally I would leave the least affected frame and clean the rest just to see what does actually happen. Probably a good case for having spare Flow frames so you can swap out and clean the existing ones.
Let us know your outcome, good luck.
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Any idea how long the queen has been laying in the frames?
Up to 2 weeks. Iām expecting to have at least 1 FF mostly brood as that fully empty on my last inspection. Unless they really shifted honey around the other flow frames might be somewhat okay, as they were about 1/5 - 2/3 full last inspection. I also put in a couple of empty standard frames so 
So, I managed to get into the hive after work todayā¦key findings (given it was getting on I didnāt take any photos, unfortunately):
- Not convinced I wasnāt the cause with my last inspection but I did take a closer look at the plastic excluder and it appears as though there was what I assume was a manufacturing fault (it was new this season; purchased a year or two ago). There was one dividing bar that looked like it was pinched in and also broken. I donāt know and canāt locate the difference in thorax/abdomen widths of a queen V worker bee but the pinch in the dividing bar probably increased the gap size by about 1-1.5mm Iād guess
- I did have brood above and below the excluder, but most was above the excluder. Maybe not surprising given most of the vacant space was above the excluder based on the last inspectionā¦
- Iāve now got a metal excluder in place
- On my last inspection the bees had a football shaped vacant area in two of the flow frames. No prize for guessing what I found in that spaceā¦all looks like drone cells. Iām inclined to let them emerge but I could change my mind and kill them as part of cleaning the frames (I think Iāll bite that bulletā¦). My concern is the fact I saw a good amount of eggs in the flow frames in addition to capped brood, which means an ongoing serious surplus of drones for the next 21-24 days or soā¦
- For the moment Iāve got an upper entry to let the drones escape (I actually broke the corner of the super last season but put the broken bit back in spot and the bees helped stick in place, so Iāve just pulled it back off to give a small entrance/exit)
- I brushed absolutely every frame into the brood box. If the Queen wasnāt on a frame down there then she was unceremoniously brushed in. I did try looking for her but couldnāt find her
- Thankfully, I saw no evidence of queen cells on any of the frames
- I did see a good amount of stored honey and a good amount of pollen. Everything seemed healthy.
- Iām now toying with installing a second super but Iāll let things settle down tonight and take a peek in a day or two and make a decision
- Oh, if anyone recalls my setup, Iāve typically run with 9 frames in an 8 frame brood box (tight fit but it works ok for me). Today Iāve gone back to 8 frames in an 8 frame box. I may or may not go back to 9 frames (the 9th frame seemed to always be a good store of pollen and honey, so to my mind it was always like an emergency store if ever there was a dearth - not that itās really needed where I am)
If anyone has any other questions or comments please feel free to post them. Iāll answer/share what I can and continue to learn 
So Iāve decided Iām going to disassemble the flow frames and clean them all out. I feel sorry for the brood Iām currently freezing to death (literally) and Iām not sure how or if Iāll be able to collect the honey that is in the flow frames (maybe strain if I disassemble in a bucket?).
Having gone back into the hive after work today I was happy to notice the following:
- In 3 days the bees have been busy shifting nectar around the hive. One frame that had been all nectar/uncapped honey is now nearly all eggs - the nectar/honey has been shifted elsewhere.
- I didnāt do a full brood inspection but the movement to free up space for brood seems to have also occurred on another 2 of 3 frames that I inspected
Now, the thing that did intrigue me is that Iām not convinced all brood in the flow frames was going to be drones (every other post I read across threads on this forum related to brood in FFās talked only of drones). As a consequence of this Iāve currently left 1x FF with brood in the hive and only pulled 2 (Iāll pull the one Iāve left after I clean these two up or after the next inspection, whichever comes first). Iāve got photos below for people to take a look and form their own opinion (so Iād be interested in what everyone thinks, including regulars across this forum: @jeffh, @Dawn_SD, @Rodderick, @skeggley, @adammaskew, @peter48, @Anon, @busso, @Semaphore, @Michael_Bush ) .
You will see some obvious cells that are drones and youāll see capped honey. However, youāll also see quite a number of āflatā looking cells that Iāve concluded are worker brood and not drones. The hive is healthy and (currently) strong.
Frame 1 side 1
Frame 1 side 2
Frame 2 side 1
Frame 2 side 2
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Hi Alan, what I would do is place the frames above a QX, to allow the brood to emerge. At the same time leave a gap for the drones to escape from. It looks to me like they are all drones. The way I understand it, the queen will only lay fertile eggs in worker sized cells.
I have seen the spacing of flow frames where I figured that some of the cells look like worker cells. Based on that, I believe it would be possible to have some workers mixed in.
Good luck with it all, cheers.
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I agree with what Jeff has said in that most are drone cells or the domed capping might be because of the smaller cell size to give room for a worker bee to fully develop before emerging.
But could you get away with letting to brood emerge and escape from the super if it was propped up on the end to give a bee space for a couple of weeks, that will depend on what your temps are like at the moment.
Glad to read you have fitted a metal QX. When I bought my flow hives the plastic QXās went straight into the recycle bin and all of my hives have metal QXās. It makes me wonder why Flow Hive donāt offer a metal QX as an optional extra.
Cheers Alan
to my eye- some of that at least definitely looks like worker brood? It may be a bit harder to determine as the cell size of the FF is so large. But some patches look quite flat? and the pattern is so dense and even like worker brood.
if not- wow- thatās going to equal a lot of drones!
what a bummer!
I guess I would shake all bees down to the lower box and let all the brood emerge above the QX. Then remove the super and harvest the honey off the hive- before beginning the arduous process of cleaning out the frames. I feel for you- as it looks like a lot of nice honey there.
Just coincidentally- the other day I merged a small swarm onto a queenless hive.I put a metal QX on the brood box and placed the swarm above. My thinking was that I could confine the queen to the top box for a few days until the hives merged so I could only have brood in 5 frames and would be able to consolidate them all into one brood box without having too many brood frames. Anyhow- the bees had other ideas - the merge went perfectly- but when I inspected I found that the queen had managed to get down to the lower box through the metal QX. So even metal QXās are not 100% queen proofā¦ Where there is a will there is a wayā¦
I would do shake the bees below, put on the excluder and wait for the brood to emerge. Then you can either pressure wash the flow frame or dissassemble it and clean each section with a stiff brush. You can dip the sections in boiling water to help get things loose.
Hi Alan, Weāre in Bridgetown and still waiting! Last year was terrible. But, starting to see some buds on the eucalypts so hoping for a better one this year.
Hi my name is Di, my Bees in my brood box have built there honeycomb about 15 degrees off centre to dividers. My first swarm left after a week so my when I put my next swarm in I didnāt want to check it for fear I would upset them. How stupid am I not realising how efficient they are. When I opened the box I found it was 80% full so I put the super on. I have 4 salmon gums around my house all with bee hives in them. Because I cant check my brood box, is that a problem. I live in a very remote area about 100 Kimās from southern cross
Gāday Di, it is a problem if you canāt check on the brood. We need to be able to check on the brood in order to be able to check on the health of the brood. Itās required by law to be able to do so. On account of your remoteness, you probably donāt have to worry about that.
I guess you canāt check on any of the wild colonyās brood. Yours will be the same. It wont hurt to get another brood box ready, because it sounds like you have a good supply of swarms every spring.
Next time you could consider using properly fitted wax foundation frames. That makes managing the hive so much easier. Also you could consider using a drop of lemongrass oil in the box to hold the swarm, that as well as a frame with open brood also helps in holding a swarm.
Edit: For next time the frame of brood will be difficult to acquire unless you fix the brood up like @skeggley suggests. However for the following time, it will be easy if you use foundation frames next time. Thatās only assuming you become addicted to beekeeping.
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Hi Di, welcome to the forum. Totally agree with Jeff, get some foundation. Although itās likely no one will want to inspect your colony out your way itās good practice to inspect for your own piece of mind and although it may seem like a daunting task, once you get stuck into it itās not so bad and even a little fun, especially with a helper and itās a great sense of achievement once done. Once the queen is laying itās unlikely they will abscond like your last lot. Now is the time to sort it out as thereās nectar and pollen about.
And a big wave back at your rock.