Queen bee above the excluder

Yes I find the framed wire excluders are much kinder on the bees and as you say the frame maintains bee space

Not had your coffee yet? Or had too much? Or perhaps just got out of the wrong side of bed?? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

You must know that your opinion is valued here. :blush:

There are framed platic excluders that maintain bee space, this isnā€™t unique to wire excluders. The only issue is I havenā€™t seen these in an 8 frame width.

Here is a photo of one with an incorporated top entrance. This is showing how the top entrance can be closed off with the wasp guard.

Wowā€¦that looks neat.
Our biggest supplier has in the last year started supplying BS Nat size plastic QXs that do maintain the bee space. Years behind you lot, I see.
More difficult to clean than the wire ones which you can torch

Hi Sarah, if you have larvae above the QX & none below it, sounds like the queen is above it. She could have inadvertently ended up there or there is a gap in the QX. Thoroughly check the QX for any unusual gaps. When I find gaps, I fill them with Plastibond. Just shake all the bees into the bottom box, replace the QX & go from there. Make sure you have an escape strategy for the drones after they hatch.

If you live in a SHB area, make sure there is enough bees to look after the brood in the flow frames after you get the queen into the bottom box. If the bees leave the brood unattended, the beetles will more than likely lay eggs in it.

1 Like

This is really helpful Jeff. Thanks for the advice.

1 Like

Hi Sarah, youā€™re most welcome.

Hi Dawn,
Iā€™m in southern Aust where itā€™s just started to warm up. I recently, 17 Sep, added a brood box and placed a QX above the top brood box and below the ideal size box which had been on the hive all winter. When inspecting today, 9 days later, I see drones and capped drone larvae, plus some larvae uncapped, in the top box above the QX. Can you tell me what will happen to the drones above the QX? Iā€™m assuming they canā€™t get through and will die, but, If I drilled a hole in that top box, would they fly out and reenter through the brood box?
Thanks Dawn.

Just provide a slit for escape above the ideal box for 10 minutes each day until they are all gone. The drones will fly out immediately.
Best do it now, before they explode or kill themselves trying to squeeze through the QX.
Sorry, Iā€™m not Dawn, but you need to do it ASAP.

1 Like

Thank you very much for your timely reply. I appreciate you taking the time.
Cheers.

Yes they would exit through that hole. I prefer your idea of drilling an upper entrance to lifting the top of the hive, as it means they can exit whenever they like.

If you do as @Webclan suggests, I would advise that you lift the lid (inner cover/crown board) early to mid-afternoon, as that is when most drones are trying to leave the hive. Ten minutes is a bit short. I would give them 30 mins - boys can be slow sometimes :wink:

2 Likes

I only had to let drones escape from the super twice, but they couldnā€™t wait to get out. They were busting. I actually just took the roof off and they quickly came out through the hole in the inner cover.
Felt very sorry for the poor guys.

1 Like

Hi Dawn,

Thanks to you for your sound advice.

I really appreciate your time and dedication to assisting those less experienced.

Cheers & I hope you had a good season over there.

1 Like

Hi Dawn,
Can you explain why the Queen will only lay Drone brood above the QX please?
Iā€™m confused, as I found young larvae and drone brood above my excluder yesterday. Iā€™m in southern Aus.
Many thanks.

I can preempt @Dawn_SDā€™s answer. Itā€™s basically because queen bees lay fertilized eggs in worker size cells & unfertilized eggs in drone size cells. The flow frames have drone size cells, therefore the queen will only lay unfertilized (drone) eggs in them. :blush:

Sounds like a laying worker if you have a qx on.

Not necessarily @skeggley. The queen could have gotten up through the QX. If there is only a few drone brood scattered within the flow frames, that would indicate to me a laying worker above the QX while the queen is working below the QX. There are a lot of ifs & buts. Full on drone brood above the QX indicates to me that the queen is above the QX. When I find that I find the queen to replace her below the QX before swapping the QX over. Then I take the QX in question home to find the gap before repairing it. I always find a gap to repair.

1 Like

I agree with Jeff. ā€˜Behappyā€™, have a look if there are single eggs in each cell in a confined arc above the QX or multiple eggs in an irregular pattern. In the first case it would be because the queen is above the QX, in the second case it would be laying workers. In a few isolated cases I had queens above the QX laying into the flow frames, always after the queen was replaced/ super-ceded and still quite small. My remedy was to find the queen to place her under the QX or if I was unable to find her I shook all the bees from the flow frames down into the brood box. I didnā€™t bother to clean the drone brood out of the flow frames, let them hatch out but made sure they had a top entrance to escape. The bees seemed to clean out the cells good enough and never had an issue in following honey extractions. But as Jeff said, check the QX for gaps and if you have the original plastic one that came with the Flow hive throw it away as far as you can and get a metal on :slight_smile:

1 Like

I have a question before I would give an opinion, what is happening below the QX? All could be right without knowing more.
It wouldnā€™t be the first time a plastic QX has failed and if you still have one fitted the first thing I would do is to buy a metal QX so that when you get into the hive it can replace the crap plastic QX while you are at it. A plastic QX becomes brittle and can break making a gap or distort out of shape which is even harder to see the gap.
Cheers

1 Like

I donā€™t have much to add to the excellent responses you have already received. :blush: One thing to think about is that the queen measures the size of each cell with her forelimbs before laying. If the cell is wider (like plastic Flow frames), she will lay a drone egg.

@Georgina also makes a very good point. Queens only lay one egg, and they lay it in the centre of the bottom of the cell. Laying workers usually lay several eggs, and their shorter abdomens donā€™t let them reach the bottom center, so often you will see the eggs on the cell wall, or way off centre.

1 Like