Referring to Michaels first sentence about bees swarming after first cell is capped. That’s the rule but ain’t necessarily so. Bad weather will keep a swarm in and swarms containing the original mated queen and a number if virgins are not unheard of.
Don’t rely on it for swarm control though.
Another thing worth doing is to have a box with a base and a lid that has frames in it located in the apiary so that if there is a swarm there is a good chance the scout bees will have checked it out and often, as it looks like their present home, the swarm will head for it. Don’t put foundation in that empty hive till it is occupied. Then I would switch the frames with frames with wired foundation, but that is just my preference over bee built comb.
It is unusual for a new queen to have swarming issues without a reason like the need for more room, and you have covered that with an extra super in the brood.
Regards
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Thanks Peter, that makes sense 
I even thought to put a box with swarm commander in it in case the hive swarmed and then they would go straight into the other box.
Curious - why would you not put wire or foundation frames in the extra brood box to start with? Why swap them out later?
If you wanted to use wire or foundation couldn’t you just put what you wanted in the box and let the bees go from there without messing around later?
Scout bees measure the inside of any potential home. They don’t just walk about inside it they fly across it. Putting a whole provision of waxed frames inside makes the box appear much smaller than it is so the scouts might well reject it. That’s why it’s best to put in just the one old brood frame and maybe a couple of empty frames with starter strips
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At the time I had my nuc box with some swarm lure . I thought about putting it out but I didnt physically see the swarm, I was worried that it might make the colony swarm again or actually get up and go to the nuc, Would this be a concern at all.? For the future
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There is no problem with putting wired frames in the swarm catching box but if foundation is fitted it would attract SHB and wax moth. The hive is only there to attract a swarm if it needed in the possibility of a swarm. A swarm will prefer something that looks like the home they had, a tree branch is in most cases just a temporary option but the scouts will usually find the vacant hive. A few smears of lemon grass would make it more attractive.
I hope that fully explains it better, I wasn’t trying to ‘short change’ you with information, it is that it is just second nature to me.
Regards
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We can agree to disagree, the swarm hive may sit for a year before being used and in that time it would be well invaded by wax moth and SHB, so as I said I have a hive with only frames, wired or not, in the hive, otherwise you are inviting disease.
Regards
Hi Peter, just to clarify about SHBs, wax foundation or empty drawn comb alone wont attract them. It’s brood, dead bees & pollen that attracts them. Or live bees for that matter, because live bees lead them to a hive that can potentially provide them with the opportunity to reproduce.
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My thinking is that if the hives were not in the mood for swarming then there would be no interest in the box except that they would be aware it was there, and that really is behind my thinking. I learned that from commercial bee keepers in my past.
Recently I started again with a single hive and bought 3 nucs from @JeffH JeffH and had an empty hive set up next to the hive I had, which is now occupied with a laying queen as is the other hives so it works. I added frames with wired foundation when I found it occupied, as that is my preference.
Regards
So I guess I can put the idea of SHB to being an 'old bee keeper tale". Are they right in regards to wax moth or were they advocating ‘just frames’ with some valid reasoning or not?
Regards
Yes for sure Peter, they are right about wax moth though. Not that they are much of a bother anyway. Even if a lure frame was riddled with wax moth, I’m sure a colony of bees would soon take care of them.
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You will have to disagree with Tom Seeley.
I was simply explaing his research
Wax moth doesn’t attack foundation. There is nothing to eat in it.
Hi Dee, in this case I’ll have to disagree with Tom, I have seen wax moth attack foundation wax. It takes them a while but they eventually do. They will attack drawn comb full of cocoons more readily, as well as slumgum. They also love brood cappings. I see them between the perspex & bottom of my observation hive consuming all of the brood cappings. The bees must sweep it into the gaps.
I wondered how the wax moths got the eggs there in the first place. Then after reading how BSF (black soldier flies) lay their eggs outside of the food source, I wondered if wax moths do the same thing.
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I guess that if the queen cell is capped then it’s too late, they will swarm.
Here in Italy, during the swarming season, we check the hive every 6 max 7 days, looking for queen cells.
We remove them all to prevent swarming.
It is an hard job but it works!
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If you do a decent preemptive swarm control, there is need to check for another 4 weeks. Most times.
Continually tearing queen cells down is a bit risky, in my view.
What are the risks?: you could accidentally kill the queen. You could miss a swarm cell.
Even if you find a capped queen cell, it’s still not to late to prevent the colony from swarming. If you find the queen, you can take a split with her included. Then break every queen cell down.
In that case, after breaking all of the queen cells down, I like to let the remaining colony build emergency queen cells. That buys more time for the urge to swarm to wane.
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It is ok for me that Tom Seeley has a different idea but I will stand by my own experience. When I first started bee keeping and was told to have an empty hive in the apiary I thought logically I would add foundation although advised to only use empty frames. The foundation was attacked by wax moth when I checked the hive seeing a little bee interest. I found wax moths, cocoons and eaten foundation.
I guess that is why they are called wax moth as they eat the wax, and not called honey moths or bee moths. I think his research in this case is floored or you misunderstood what he wrote.
Cheers
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Practice swarm control with every trick in the book. You could do a split as it is a way of increasing your number of hives or sell it. I look for over crowding in the brood box or the super and you should see if there is a problem there, the remedy in the brood box is to take out a frame of capped brood making sure the queen is not on the frame and put it in the super. Take out a capped frame of honey and extract the honey then put that frame in the brood box. If the super is busting at the seams with honey it is time to extract the honey. If there is bearding of an evening I would add another super with frames of wired foundation or you will run a real risk of swarming but usually a first year queen swarming is not that common.
Good to hear from you Luca, cheers
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No I was talking about filling the box to make it appear smaller. The comment about wax moth not attacking foundation was my observation. Mind you we have a swarming season here. April May June July and bait boxes are out only for those months. No point at any other time. If you catch a swarm after July it will be a rubbish one.
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No I didn’t phrase my reply to you adequately. I was talking about space not what wax moth do
How many rounds of queen cell removing do you have to do before the colony gives up ?