G’day fellow Beeks! My name is Blake and I am a second year beekeeper in the Hunter Valley, Australia. To give you guys some background, I have two hives in a double brood box arrangement.
I have a degree in botany and my love of beekeeping stems from the pollination benefits that my girls offer; and as such, I am looking to keep my total number of hives to only two. Most swarm control methods that I have read about involve splitting the hive (which is great and works…it is how I got my second hive after all) but what if no increase is desired? I have been reading about the demaree method, but will it work for hives that are in a double brood box setup?
What management strategies do you all use for a double brood box setup in this scenario? I have been pouring through textbooks and the internet/forums for weeks with no straight answer…
Hi Blake, sorry I can’t answer your question regarding double brood box setups.
During springtime it’s only natural that bee colonies will want to build up their population in order to be able to swarm, which is how they reproduce.
In over 33 years of beekeeping I have only found 2 ways to keep my hive numbers from expanding.
The first method is to remove & destroy the brood before the bees start swarm preparations. That method can be beneficial for feeding to chooks, or even used as hachinoko.
The second & most profitable method is to split the colonies, let them make new queens, then sell the nucs.
When you say remove and destroy brood, is this as simple as leaving just one frame of brood in your brood box and replacing all the other frames with fresh frames/foundations for the bees to build on?
Another probably silly question; but have you ever gone to the trouble to reunite splits with the main colony after swarming season is over? If so, did it work well?
You’re welcome Blake, first up, that’s kind of what I do, however not quite as extreme unless I find the colony actually preparing to swarm. I don’t use foundationless frames, however that can be an option if placing them between fully drawn combs with the view of removing the brood out of them every 2 weeks. If that was the strategy (& a good one by the way) you adopt in favor of selling nucs, you would remove every second brood frame before replacing them with foundationless frames.
Secondly I wouldn’t attempt to reunite a split back with the parent hive on account they would both be too strong to even consider doing such a thing.
A bee colony with a young vigorous queen, coupled with perfect spring conditions has the ability to expand, if managed properly into an unbelievably strong colony. Imagine what an early swarm season split can achieve if that split was successful in producing an equally vigorous queen.
I am REALLY liking the brood removal strategy. I currently run foundationless frames in my brood boxes and conduct fortnightly inspections; so I can see this fitting super well into my workflow and solves all of my increase problems! So I guess my next question is, for how long would you consider swapping out frames? Just during spring or during the entire nectar flow (but stopping before winter so the bees can establish themselves?). I also imagine this is a tad of a regional question too.
And thank you for answering my split reunion question too! That’s the thing, my queens are super vigorous and build up quickly; so I couldn’t see a scenario where reuniting two strong hives was going to go well. It’s mentioned a few times in some of my texts but is glossed over extremely quickly so I assumed that it isn’t an often used strategy.
You’re correct is saying it’s a regional thing. How long you do it for is primarily to keep the population from exploding, which will trigger a swarm, which by the way is not confined to spring. Swarms can happen right up to autumn. I have caught swarms just one week before our winter officially starts. However at the time I did wonder if they were swarms or the result of absconding after a tree blew over or a slime-out, or some other factor.
Haha, Joseph is my middle name so you weren’t too far off the mark with Joe!
That makes absolute and total sense in that it is a population numbers game and not necessarily a seasonal trait. With the way my hive grew last year, I would nearly be confident swapping out frames until Feburary at the minimum. But there is no replacement for a good inspection! The bees will tell me what to do.
My absolute final question for you (I promise!) is in regards to my double brood setup (which you mentioned you don’t run but I would still love to pick your brain over). So I am going in every two weeks and swapping out frames. Would I be best to alternate boxes (ie: take from one box each fortnight) or take frames out of both boxes each fortnight? Or even just take out of one box consistently?
Hi Blake, it doesn’t really matter which box you take frames from as long you achieve the desired outcome.
I used to destroy brood as a means to prevent swarming, however I’m finding that nucs are very salable. I’m constantly streamlining my strategy for splits & nucs. after a lot of trial & error.
Don’t be frightened to ask questions Blake, it’s how we learn. An answer to your question might help someone else, or it might even start a lively debate
@JeffH Hi Jeff. I just had a question regarding the removing of the brood frames. Do you just remove 1 brood frame every 2 weeks or all the brood frames except 1 every 2 weeks? Then would I move the honey frames next to the brood frame and put the empty ones next to them? How do you get the brood off the frames to be able to reuse them? I would be using foundationless also. Sorry for all the questions. Im going to be getting the flow hive and am looking to only have 2 hives for me and my kids to take care of. Was just trying to get all the info before hand
Before the population gets too strong during spring, I remove 3-5 brood frames once every 4-5 weeks. I use the frames containing the most sealed brood, minus bees to bolster weaker colonies. Alternatively I’ll use those frames, with bees to make new colonies. Each colony is treated on it’s merits, so therefore there’s no “one size fits all”, if you know what I mean.
@JeffH ok so I would take out 3-5 of the brood frames (give them away if I can), shake off the bees back into the brood box and then put empty frames in place of those frames in the middle of the box and leave the honey frames still on the outside correct? Just buy a brush to brush them off the frames I am taking out so they go back into the box?
Yes, that’s basically it. By the time you need to split the colony, you wont find much honey on the outside frames, it’ll be mostly brood. The other thing is: you don’t want to place the empty frames in the middle, ideally you would checkerboard them once the nights are no longer cold. While the nights are still cold, I keep the remaining brood together in the middle, with fresh frames placed on the sides. I use fully drawn combs of about 98% worker comb for this purpose, stickies are ideal. Alternatively I use fresh wax foundation.
Most people recommend starting a second hive because you can use resources from one hive to help the other hive, if or when the occasion arises.
I don’t use a brush, I shake bees off frames, while trying to avoid shaking the queen. I’ll gently nudge the queen off the frame, before shaking the rest of the bees off.
@JeffH Thank you so much for the info! Sorry just one more question. So when you say you try and use the worker comb do you mean the combs with honey in them in place of foundationless frames?
Hi & you’re welcome Jennifer. I’m not a fan of foundationless frames, especially in brood boxes. The fully drawn worker comb frames that I place in brood boxes are normally stickies, which are frames that have recently had honey spun out of. I have used frames straight out of honey supers that are fully drawn, at least on one side. If they contain honey, it wont matter because the bees will move it out, so that the queen can lay eggs in the cells they want her to lay in.
Here’s a frame like I’m talking about, ready to put into a brood box if needed.
To give you guys some background, I have two hives in a double brood box arrangement.
It’s mentioned a few times in some of my texts but is glossed over extremely quickly so I assumed that it isn’t an often used strategy.
