What happens if a worker lays eggs?

But they aren’t laying then. Plus I think that is an exaggeration - they will make very brief cleansing flights even in winter. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

How old are these bees that are laying workers though? How long has the queen been gone before you get laying workers?

I’m sure laying workers know exactly where they live

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Maybe so, but Sammataro claims that laying workers are too heavy to fly back to their own hive. I think this is actually a very difficult problem to study, so much of it is speculation.

They are almost invariably nurse bees, and therefore less than 3 weeks old.

As it is brood pheromone from uncapped worker brood which suppresses the ovaries in workers, the stimulus will start 9-10 days after the last worker egg was laid (drone brood doesn’t count, as they don’t make the correct pheromone). It takes about a week for the ovaries to develop sufficiently to produce eggs, so the usual figure is a minimum of around 3 weeks from loss of the queen. I have been reading up on this recently, for a pretty good reason. :blush: All will be revealed on another thread. :wink:

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Very interesting
I have never seen a laying worker problem within a month of queen loss.
I once waited for a non existent virgin to mate and six weeks later there were still no laying workers
As for flying, I’m not convinced.
A queen full of eggs can fly. I’ve lost a laying queen during an inspection. I don’t know where she went but she took off and it was half an hour before I spotted her on the landing board. Bees carrying stomachs full of nectar must be pretty heavy.
Not easy to prove what laying workers can and can’t do.

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Double their normal weight, according to Tom Seeley. I totally agree with everything you are saying. I just think this is very poorly studied, and old wives are all around the truth… :smile:

The three week line is a theoretical minimum. Reality can be quite different, as you well know. I think prolific laying workers are usually found in hives which has been queenless for 6-8 weeks or more.

I had a hive with a laying worker. Actually because I’m doing lots of splits, I’m continually dealing with the problem. However this particular hive was strong enough to split 3 ways. I did that & put a frame of brood in each split. Two splits made queen cells while the third split carried on with the laying worker.

At least with that strategy 2/3rds of the colony are on their way to a new queen. That only leaves one third to worry about.

I just let a nuc size colony ride it out by adding frames of brood. They eventually make a queen.

My theory about a laying worker is that she is only a worker. Therefore she wouldn’t be expected to live all that long. Not like a queen.

One day when the opportunity arises, instead of putting a frame of brood in, I’m going to use a frame of brood with emergency queen cells already underway.

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The problem is that there are usually hundreds but you may have hit the nail on the head there. It may explain why successive frames of brood eventually work.

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Hi Dee, at the time of me doing the 3 way split, I thought that there was only one & didn’t know that more than one worker turns into laying workers. However in my ignorance, the fact that 2 splits made queen cells & one didn’t indicated to me that only one existed in this case.

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Are you sure there was a laying worker or a new queen just getting going?

A little research has thrown up

Its the pseudo Queens that are the problem. They have a developed mandibular gland and alsothe egg marking Dufour gland to mimic the missing Queen. They get a retinue, fed by other workers, who’s own ovary development is suppressed. Impossible to requeen as the colony is happy! Butler reckoned that some 80% of workers (must include foragers) were layers after 1 month of broodless and Queen-less

I think 80% might be a little OTT but you get my drift

Hi Dee, I assumed it was on account of all drones in worker comb, no workers whatsoever. It could have been a queen that didn’t get mated.

It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion. Something I do a lot of.

I suppose it’s ok to have the wrong diagnoses as long as a positive outcome is achieved.

I’m not really a fan of persevering with these colonies on account of all the drones in worker cells. What I’ll do one day is try to unite a colony that contains some brood with emergency queen cells to see what happens. If they wont make their own emergency queen, I will unite some bees that already did.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

I didn’t know about the pseudo queen either. It’s no matter practically as you say. I think saving a laying worker hive is a waste of time. Those bees have little time to live so they can be put to better use in another colony

It has never been a waste of time for me. I always get a good outcome while at the same time I’m helping to prevent strong colonies from swarming.

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That’s the bliss of having good weather and lots of bees. I guess what you are doing is making a split and using the bees that way rather than re- queening a hopeless colony.

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Yes that’s correct Dee, not so much now that we’re into autumn. Nobody is chasing colonies now. I’m working on building my own colonies up ready for another honey flow in June.

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