I just was looking for frames on Amazon and found another one, this one even almost using the Flow name but shipping from China.
I left a one-star review calling them out on patent law but Amazon will probably filter it.
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That was exactly what I was thinking, the parent company is new, and they created several trademarks for companies here in the USA. It screams of fraud, since their video shows a Flowhive copy, yet they claim the bees create 70% of the comb. I havenât yet ask how the bees are making the extra deep comb like the Flowhive frames, since bees naturally donât make them that way. I doubt their crowdfunding endeavor will be successful, Iâll be the first to file a complaint of patent fraud to any of the services they attempt to use.
Itâs fun calling them out on their blatant lies, I did this during another IGG campaign where the trolls were rampant, they quickly disappeared under the rock in which they came after the product was delivered on time and of high quality. This is kinda opposite, instead of defending, Iâm accusingâŚwell I guess Iâm still defending the Flowhive.
Oh a side note, I did an inspection on my Flow super yesterday and they are filling and already capping in my apartment hive.
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Bruce, have fun with your comments on their site, but donât waste your time trying to file a complaint. I am pretty sure you would be outright dismissed for lack of what is called âstandingâ. As indicated by Saadi above, Flow is aware and acting to protect their interests. And they do have standing as the party harmed.
But I like your spirit and sense of justice!
And congrats on capped honey in the Flow super!
Harris
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I just saw one of the âflow hivesâ sold on Ebay from China. A newbie to our bee club thought he was buying a REAL FlowHiveâŚbuyer beware. What a piece of crap! Itâs never been used but sitting for a couple of months in his garden. My husband basically had to rebuild the thing before we can put any bees in it. I am suspicious of the materials used in the actual frames after seeing the poor quality of the hive itself. It does not have a screened bottom board; rather the ventilation takes place through the top. It is VERY poorly constructed. But I donât see how they can get away with calling it a FLOW HIVE. You get what you pay for!!
If youâre unsure of the materials, why would you use it?
Hey, they actually posted my review. Cool! We should flood Amazon with 1-star reviews of all the knockoffs.
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Itâs not MY hive. I wouldnâtâŚbut then, I would not have bought it!
Sorry confused because of
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Some might be interested in this (note: x-post)
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#Semaphore, I enjoyed your posts. Good to hear a loyal defence of the Flow. Youâre right donât let them get off first base. Knock it on the head I say. An imitation was bound to happen, and happen soon. The little of the YouTube clip i saw is clearly a ripoff from Flow right down to the soundtrack advertising. The advertising is clearly directed at western markets, and may infringe the patent lodged in Aust, US, Europe and the UK. I wonder what the advertising for the Chinese and Indian market looks and sounds like. Has anyone seen that? Is Flow patented and trademarked in China, can Flow enforce a patent in China? I hope so.
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Does anyone know how much they are?
Theyâre not revealing costs until they launch theyâre crowdfunding campaignâŚhmmmm 
Then you can get a really âsuper deal as a supporter of their fantastic productâ
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Keep up the good work Bruce, doing a great job!
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Concerning the China aspect- Flow hold a patent in China:
http://www.google.com/patents/CN104053356B?cl=en
Concerning the lying claims made by CrapComb to be âthe first ever system where the wax capping is not brokenâ see the following text from the Flow patents:
"There may be circumstances where it is desirable to leave the front (mouth) of the cell unbroken when sliding the comb parts to break the cells apart. This allows the comb to be drained while keeping the wax cap intact. When the comb is drained and the parts are moved back to the cell formed position, the bees can remove the wax capping to refill the cell with honey. Figure 4 illustrates an example of a two part honeycomb where one part comprises the entire hexagonal edge of the mouth of each cell, and which will be described in greater detail below. "
And as a flow frame user I know from direct experience the caps are not broken.
Concerning the CrapComb claim to have changed the height of one of the rows- see the following from the Flow patents:
âThere may be circumstances where it is desirable for the cell wall to be partially incomplete so that the bees can complete the cell structure with wax. The precise wall or walls which are incomplete may vary, but suitably comprise part of the side wall of the cell. Figure 7 illustrates a non-limiting example of an incomplete cell wall structure, and this will be described in greater detail below.â
Reading through the entire Flow patent- it is clear they have patented many potential future additions to their essential invention. the patents are not limited to what we see in the current Flow frame product. I feel pretty confident that if this matter ever ends up in court the CrapComb company will lose- as they should. I believe they are playing a game of chicken: seeing how far Flow is willing to go to defend their own IP. It is abundantly clear to me that their only interest in this matter is trying to cash in on Flowâs hard work and success. They heartily deserve to fail.
As to questions about price and competition- if you ask me they are missing the point. Flow spent thousands of dollars inventing and testing the Flow frame and patenting it in multiple countries. If you look at those patents you can see that Flow were working for many, many years behind the scenes before they were ready to launch the frames. They did the right thing- and having had such a successful campaign they also did what many companies wouldnât do and invested in Australian manufacturing and Australian jobs. They now employ 40 people directly- and many more indirectly. They support sustainable Australian timber industries, etc.
If CrapComb get their way- they will harm Australian jobs and manufacturing and be stealing Australian Intellectual property.
They claim to be great âfriends of Flowâ. Do friends go behind your back, sneak into your house and steal all your things? I donât think so.
Now I see on the CrapComb facebook page they have posted a response to the furore they have created- they say the following at one point:
â4) Are Flow hive patents granted?
We donât know and weâre not going to jump to conclusions, as others have done. This is one of the posts we saw: https://www.facebook.com/âŚ/a.13078749793âŚ/1326180070803858/âŚâ
well if that is true- then they are idiots- because it took me all of two minutes to confirm that at least some of the Flow patents have reached the granted stage- others are still in the long process of achieving that- but even still their priority date is years ahead of any so called CrapComb patents (which as far as I can tell do not even exist even at the application stage):
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How is a patent infringement policed in a country you donât have jurisdiction in?
A simple questionâŚno hidden agenda
If you look at the granted patent linked at the end of my latest rant- you will see it is an international WIPO application that covers many many signatory countries. As far as I can see so far- It has already been granted in Australia and Ukraine- even though it was published way back in 2012- it still hasnât been granted in many WIPO signatory countries. I am not expert on how it works but I think it has to go through a separate process in every single signatory country- and these processes take years and years. But it at the very least the Flow patent years and years ahead of any CrapComb patent (which most certainly has not been granted anywhere- and possibly doesnât even exist).
Unfortunately patents are not âpolicedâ as such- it is up to the patent holder to take legal action in whatever jurisdiction their patent is infringed in. Which means hiring local IP lawyers, investigators, etc and going to court.
A patent is only as good as your ability to defend it. If you do not have the financial means to actively litigate against infringement- it is almost not worth going through the difficult process of obtaining a patent. And- even if you are successful against another party- there is absolutely no guarantee that you will have all (or even any) of your expenses covered. This aspect of IP law around the world is a bit sad- as it gives larger corporations with fatter wallets a distinct advantage. They can afford to protect their own IP- and they can also afford to infringe on the IP of smaller parties.
In the case of this CrapComb company: letâs say they manage to start selling their product and Flow takes them to court in the USA. If Flow was successful- as I understand it CrapComb would be liable to pay any profits they have made directly to Flow, they would also be liable to pay Flowâs costs, and possibly damages. Depending on the severity of their infringement- individuals may even be up for criminal prosecution and jail time. However: if they simply fold up and disappear- it may be very hard to get any of that. Additionally the legal process moves slower than molasses- and is harrowing- and to an extent arbitrary with no guarantees (except large legal bills).
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Thank you for that excellent explanation
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this was a comment that I received on my youtube channel recentlyâŚ
No need to pay double the preform Flow, you can buy a good quality Hive from Ali Express for 1/2 the price for the exact same thing. Donât let the Flow Naziâs tell you anything but Flow is inferior, it isnât, I own one from China, went together fine. The Flow naziâs will also try to tell you the plastic in the Flow Frames is not Food Grade but I had it tested at a certified lab and it is in fact food grade. Do not pay for the high cost of living in AustraliaâŚAli Express is also FREE SHIPPING