Bees wont go into the flowhive and are now swarming

I was going to comment in a very similar way but working the maths back the other way, ie.

24000 / 21 = 1143 eggs a day

This also assumes that there is zero ‘turn around time’ between when a bee hatches and a new egg is placed in the cell (interested to know if anyone has links to the period of time it takes for bee to hatch and cell being ready to use again).

I know that it’s not maths… but I definitely think the ‘rough numbers’ are worth considering.

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My mathematics differ a little, but then I use standard foundation. :blush:

For me, a deep frame has 3,500 cells per side, so two extra frames are 14,000 cells. However, in general, I agree with your thoughts. :wink:

Well, my inspections aren’t on YouTube, but my 2 deep brood boxes are more than 80% full. As I am addicted to foundation for brood boxes, they are also full mostly all the way out, except for the holes and channels which the bees love to chew at the edges of the frames! :smile:

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Hi Dawn, I counted the cells on a sheet of foundation I have here. I got 76x43=3268. Based on that, I get 13,000 for 2 frames.

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ROFLOL, @JeffH… You have too much time! :smile: I just use the manufacturer’s numbers for sheets in the US - good enough, mostly. Thank you for the precision manual count. :blush:

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You make me smile:) I only counted the top & side. Even doing that turned me cross eyed. You’re right about too much time on my hands, earlier today I watched an Aussie blokes 45 minute video of doing a split. He needed lots of tuition but I wasn’t going there. It would have taken another 45 minutes to explain it all to him.

I was going to do a video myself with cowgirl in mind. It was too windy plus we had some welcome rain last night & the hive I was going to video has a bit of attitude. It might have been too close after the rain.

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@JeffH I have a brood box absolutely exploding with workers. 2 outside frames are full of capped honey and all other frames also have lots of honey. Absolutely no action in the super even though it’s been there for about 7 weeks now.

I’ve tried pressing wax into the frames too.

If nothing happens by this weekend, I’ll move a frame full of brood upstairs and remove the queen excluder.

Any other ideas?

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Don’t remove the queen excluder. If you get brood in the Flow frames, it gets very messy. If there are drone cells in the frame you move up, lift the inner cover for 15-60 mins by 5mm every afternoon to let the new drones out.

The other thing you could do is take a frame of honey out of the brood box and freeze it. Replace it with an undrawn frame of foundation to keep them busy for now and discourage swarming. In winter you could give them the honey back when they need it.

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Thanks @Dawn_SD. I don’t live far from @JeffH here on the Sunshine Coast of Queensland and we’re about to begin the winter months. Jeff has been talking about the honey flow we’ve been experiencing. I have noticed it too. My brood box is full of honey.

My concern is that the brood box is so full of bees. I’ve watched a lot of video’s online and never seen anything like I’m experiencing. I should take some pictures of my own. When I lift a frame from the brood box, which is a real challenge at the moment, the bees seem to be 5 deep on the frame. There are bees hanging off the bottom of the frames up to 4cm. They have been building comb on top of the frames and above the queen excluder but simply don’t seem interested in the flow frames.

Once I have the queen excluder off, they just seem to emerge from below in large numbers. It makes it extremely difficult to replace the queen excluder and super without casing harm; even with lots of smoke.

I see no sign of swarming. No queen cells in sight. Just a hive full of satisfied bottom dwellers :wink:

I assume the advice will be that I should be patient and maybe that’s wise but after 7 weeks, the stubbornness is wearing me down!

What are your thoughts?

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Hi Keith, if I can bring @Bean19 into the conversation, she can tell you what she did a year or so ago. I got her to lift 2 frames of brood to above the QX, place them in the middle while removing 2 flow frames. You could replace them with fresh foundation, checkerboarded.

I agree with Dawn. I wouldn’t remove the QX.

Because the brood frames are thinner, place the gaps on the outside. It is only temporary, so don’t be concerned about the gaps. Also you’ll need to put a thin strip under the frame lugs on the harvest end.

Bean19 lives nearby & has a second flow hive, I think. She would be good to talk to.

cheers

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Hi Jeff and Keith. Hope you are keeping well Jeff ?
Yes Keith, I successfully did as Jeff suggested and for me it worked at treat. Be careful that you identify the queen and know where she is before you move the brood up above the Q/ Excluder, there’ll be a bit of a problem if she inadvertently is transferred upstairs and starts laying in the flow frames.

I did not disturb the girls for 3 weeks after doing this but did have the odd sneaky peek through the windows and could see that they had started to fill in the fine splits between the plastic hexagons of flow frames.

My second Flowhive which is in a different location,was a split taken from my first (Thanks to Jeff’s wonderful advice again ) I waited for the brood box to become really full of bee’s before I put the flow super on, then did as Jeff described in his post. This colony actually took to the flow frames more readily than my home hive. I don’t do anything to the flow frames at all apart from put them straight into the super.

I tend not to be intrusive with my bee’s. I watch alot of what they do externally and if something isn’t looking as normal I’ll take a look but generally I look monthly.

My bee’s in my home hive have a very intense busy time between 12 and 2 most days when there appears to be hundreds of bee’s flying crazily around the front of the hive. They soon settle as the afternoon progresses. I was initially worried that they were swarming too until I’d had a chance to observe this over a few days and they didn’t seem to take off. I also knew there were no signs of imminent swarm within the brood box which reassured me as well. Do yours settle eventually ?

My sister recently gifted me a book called "The Honey Factory " by Tautz and Steen which is written from a northern hemisphere perspective but non the less extremely well written,easy to read and incredibly interesting. I learnt a lot about bee behaviour and the workings of the hive from this book.

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Hi Anita, really well thanks, however busy. Thanks for coming in so quick. There looks to be a real honey flow imminent down your way. When driving down Coggill Rd, all the gum trees are heavily in bud. I’m expecting the hives at the doctor’s place to fill up again. There’s 2 there now. They were both full a few weeks ago.

What you’re seeing between 12 & 2 is most likely daily orientation flights. As bees move up the ranks, each day a new lot of bees perform orientation flights.

After the shortest day, when the days start to lengthen & the bees start bringing in loads of pollen, that’s the time to be aware of swarming behavior. Last year some colonies were preparing to swarm as early as early July. That’s something to be aware of.

Anyway I’ll talk to you later, cheers

@JeffH I’m assuming that I should be using this time to prepare for further hive splits come early spring ?
I have noticed my girls are going over the abundance of golden penda around at the moment and the tea tree. The hives smell mostly of the tea tree.

Do you take much honey off them in the cooler weather ? I’ve been reluctant with all the rain we’ve had. Don’t want them to starve.

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Hi Anita, I’m preparing for spring myself at the moment.

Same here in regards to the tea trees & golden pendas.

I take all the honey from the honey supers because the bees constrict the brood & replace it with honey. Therefore there is always more honey in the brood box during the winter around here. Plus the fact that there’s always something coming in, even between the showers.

I took a frame of brood from a resource hive today to help another colony. I gave it a gentle shake. The unripe honey poured out of it like rain.

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Good advice , I intend to go take a look at the hive at Tracie’s place next week, last time I looked they had almost completely capped 2 flow frames and were working on the others. I’ll take some honey from them if it all looks ok.
They are a lovely colony over there, very tolerant of my bumbling around :grinning:

Hi to Wilma. :hugs:

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Thank you Anita & Wilma says “hi”.
cheers

I have 15 flow hives (or so) and only experienced bees not going up into the flow super once, Carnies. Lifted a brood frame into flow super twice, above QX. Works like a charm. Better than waxing.
The nurses go with the frame, all others follow.
Just be aware, when opening your extraction door, you will have bees in your face.
And let those big drones out the top of the roof after they emerged, as the poor things are too big to go back through the QX.

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The problem is not the Flow frames, it’s the plastic.

I don’t have Flow frames but I have booming hives that absolutely will not go above the excluder to the plastic foundation:
I removed the excluder on those hives and will let them do as they wish, then, when everything is drawn, I’ll add the excluder, put the queen below, and the brood will hatch out and be back-filled with honey.

I need to find wax foundation for my honey supers.

Hi @Bean19,

Thank you for the advice. Yesterday I did as you and @JeffH suggested and moved 2 frames of brood to the super. I was able to find the queen and made4 sure she was left in the brood box.

Interestingly there’s a lot of honey in the brood frames with very little room for the queen to lay. I had been hoping the workers would move the honey to the flow frames in the super but even after a few weeks now, no activity.

My hive is not located at my home so I don’t see how they behave throughout the day. They seem to be very busy in the warm hours of the day and quite lethargic when it’s cooler. Yesterday afternoon it was 18 degrees celcius at the front of the hive and activity was minimal. Returning workers seemed lethargic and would crash land or fall about. I guess that’s what I would do too if I worked as hard as they do :wink:

Like you, I prefer to leave my bees in peace. I was going to ask you of @JeffH how long I should wait before checking. I’ll observe through the windows and perhaps wait 3 weeks before opening the hive. Do you think this is sufficient time to wait?

Hi Keith, I remember telling you (or I think it was you) how the bees constrict the brood during winter, then expand it in the spring.

It IS winter, or it will be in a couple of days. Don’t ever think that there’s nowhere for the queen to lay unless the hive is chock-a-block full of honey & nowhere that the bees can put another drop. The bees have constricted the brood & back filled it with honey. It’s what they want to do because winter is fast approaching. Once we get past the shortest day, we’ll see the bees bringing back plenty of pollen, then we’ll see them start to expand the brood by removing honey to make room for the queen to lay. The opposite to what they’re doing right now.

Don’t worry about the bees ignoring the flow frames right now. It will happen during the spring buildup.

Now’s a good time to watch that video “City of Bees”.
cheers

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Hi Keith,

I waited 3 weeks before taking the lid off and having a good look , just observe through the window at the moment.

The bee’s aren’t as active in the cooler weather , mine tend to sleep in a bit over the cooler months (I’m reluctant to call it winter as its really mild ), activity increases as soon as the morning sun seems to hit the hive but by late afternoon they have slowed down again .

Are the bee’s that are returning carrying much pollen ? I note that my bee’s tend to have tumbles at the entrance to the hive if they are heavily laden.

I’m assuming that your hive gets some sun. I have mine facing North East which seems to work for me really well.