Bees wont go into the flowhive and are now swarming

Hi There,
Location, Queensland, Australia.
I purchased a Flow Hive last January, put it together over autumn/winter and finally put bees in in October. All seemed well, queen was laying, brood happening, all good… I placed the super on at the end of November, the bees moved in and started filling the gaps, putting in some nectar. 4 weeks later the hive swarmed and so, i learnt the hard way how to catch a swarm. I placed it back into the hive and they settled down, all seemed well. On the 15th of January the hive swarmed again. This time my mentor and I looked further, there were some queen cells which we disposed of. He suggested requeening the hive which we did with a brand new queen the next week. The hive settled in and all was well, the flow supers are 30% capped and plenty of nectar, the brood in the brood box is on track, yesterday they swarmed again !!! What is going on ?? any suggestions ??

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You need to do some active swarm prevention… These articles say it much better than I could:
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/wbka-booklet-english-PDF.pdf

I am not trying to avoid answering your question, just it is a very big subject, and if you have lost 2 swarms, you need to read some expert stuff like these articles. Just one opinion. I am sure you will get a lot more. :wink:

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Thanks for your reply,
I will follow up the links. both swarm were recaptured and returned to the hive so nothing lost yet.

I’m in North Queensland and my bee mentor told me that I need 2 brood boxes if I have 8 frame boxes. Apparently I could just get away with having a single brood box if I had a 10 frame.

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Thanks and interesting, I will discuss that with my mate…

Sounds like a good bloke. I like his way of thinking. Most people are used to thinking about 10-frame boxes, which have 25% more space. I think one 8-frame brood box is cramming the bees in a bit too tightly in most situations, but that is just me. :blush:

I don’t really agree with the big push (and now pseudo standard) for 8 frame in Australia. The reduction in frames was to lighten the super weight but as a result you also drop the brood size by 20%… an unfortunate side effect. The argument for it always seemed to be that if you dropped the super weight using a shallower boxes (eg. Ideal / Half / WSP) that you would then have non-conforming frame sizes across the brood and super. I’m happier taking a shallower/differing frame sizes over a smaller brood box… but I know that view is probably in the minority these days.

I think you mean 20% Dr.

So putting a swarm back into a parent box without bumping the queen doesn’t make sense to me. I suppose requeening was to stop the swarmy nature of the colony?
I had a colony swarm just after it built out the foundationless frames in a hybrid super caught me unaware. It’s new queen seems to be doing just fine. I’d rather put a frame of brood from another colony and let them make their own, especially with the price of queens this year!

25% is right.

10 frame have 25% more space than 8 frame

8 frame have 20% less space than 10 frame

Wait, what? So if each frame in a 10 frame box is 10% of the box then an 8 frame is 80% of a 10 frame box. Could someone please explain how a 10 frame box is one quarter larger than an 8 frame box?
Maths isn’t my strong point and my brain is now hurting…

If you have an 8 frame box, 2 frames equate to 25% of the total box, so a 10 frame box is 25% (2 frames) larger than an 8 frame box.

If you have a 10 frame box, 2 frames equate to 20% of the total box, so an 8 frame box is 20% (2 frames) smaller than a 10 frame box.

I have no doubt someone will pull me up and say the language is incorrect… hope that helps explain it anyway…

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Depends on your point of view @skeggley :blush: I am with @RBK - thanks mate! :smile:

I was told there would be no math…

Like the cake, it is a lie… :smile:

I like to use 9 frames in a single 10 frame super for brood. That is only a jump of 12.5% from an 8 frame super. Even with an 8 frame super, I’d still use only one for brood.

@jbjabiru, I would never put a swarm back into it’s original hive. It is a great opportunity to start a second hive. You can manipulate the bees to prevent swarming. In that case you get a second hive that will make a new queen without the issues of swarming. Not all swarms can be recaptured.

I’ve been saying for a while now, I think this is the first time on the forum, that: “two queens are better than one”. Two good colonies are always better than one.

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Ok, Thanks for the feedback…

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I agree Jeff. In south Australia 10 frame is standard- however our 8 frame single brood flow hives have been doing pretty well. It’s only 1 year in- but at the end of the day 1 or two frames difference in size shouldn’t be too big a factor? I find it hard to imagine a colony with 8 frames thinking: if we just had one or two more frames things would be perfect?

If it is kept simple the difference between 8 frame box and 10 frame box is about 16000 cells of usable space. So that is quite a lot of extra storage space.

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Hi Jack, the trick is to as @bpmitchell says “keep it simple”. However the main thing is to make sure that each frame in the brood, regardless of what number of frames, is used to it’s maximum potential for raising workers. I did a count of cells & came up with a figure of around 6,000 per frame. When you allow for gaps around the edges, pollen & honey stored in some cells, I reckon an impressive frame of brood will produce around 4,000 bees every 21 days or slightly over 21 days. In an 8 frame box, say you allow 2 frames for honey & pollen, that leaves 6 frames producing 4,000 bees each in just over 21 days. 24,000 bees, that equals just under half a strong colony.

Edit- Lots of beekeepers are using multiple brood boxes. However going by what I’ve seen on youtube hive inspections, lots of frames are not used to their full potential.

Check my maths but if a queen is laying conservatively 1500 eggs a day she could lay every cell in the box at 24000 cells in 16 days.
Correct me I’m wrong, this is where swarming starts as the queen has run out of space to lay and the honey stores are full she starts thinking the hive is as big as it can get so they need to swarm to reproduce.

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