Muck, Grubs and dead bees in the bottom of my Nuc

Hi Friends

Today I transferred the bees from the nuc to my flow hive. This is my first hive and I’m pleased to say everything went smoothly for both me and the bees. It and it was amazing to see them going about their work. I could have watched them all day.

However the bottom of the Nuc was full of wet muck, grubs and dead bees (See pic). The grubs were still alive wriggling around in the muck. There was one little beetle running around the top when I opened the lid, but I squashed it and then realised I probably should have taken a pic first.

What are these grubs? They seem too big to be bee grubs. I put in a beetle trap before closing the lid. Is there anything I should do? Also how often should I be checking a new hive?

Thanks in advance

Jason

Hi Jason, my first thoughts is a slime out by small hive beetle and they are the grubs.

Have you got photos of the frames?

Is there a rancid smell to the muck?

Was there a honeyleak?

2-3 weeks is a good time frame. each inspection will sets the hive back, you really want them building up to be ready for winter.

A strong colony will deal with shb and chase them into the beetle traps.

Welcome

1 Like

Yes the Nuc smelt a bit foul.

No I did not see any honey dripping from the frames. However It was my first time looking into a bee hive so no doubt there was a lot of info I probably missed.

We are just going into spring now winter is still 6 months away.

Yes I took pics if each if the 5 frames in the Nuc. See below

I also managed to find the queen

1 Like

Hmm,
was the nuc situated in a cold damp place? That’s an unusual amount of muck. I am not sure what to make of your frames- some things look good- others not so good. I am surprised by the low number of bees on the frames? Is that all there is? There are hardly enough bees to keep the brood warm- and certainly not enough to keep the hive clean. For future reference: any hive with a solid bottom would be tilted towards the entrance so water can flow out. If not you can end up with muck like you have and damp conditions. Bees tolerate cold better than damp.

The brood pattern looks quite patchy on some of the frames- but OK on others. You have a lot of fresh looking honey though which is good. The darkness at the bottom of the frames is a little bit concerning- that may be related to the damp at the bottom of the nuc- mould? I am not sure but I think I can see a small amount of chalkbrood in some cells.

I cannot see any beetles- good- and my guess is those larvae are larger wax moth? I am not so experienced with beetles though as they are not an issue here in Adelaide.

I can’t really see any obvious signs but you might want to be wary of AFB. You colony is weak for some reason- it looks like the bees are not able to care for all the brood. The amount of capped honey indicates that there were more bees at some time in the recent past. Read up about how to test/look for AFB it if you haven’t already. I will show these pictures to a much more experienced beekeeper to get her opinion.

Hopefully now the bees are in a bigger hive and have a screened bottom with ventilation they will improve. I am concerned though by the low numbers.

2 Likes

I’m taking the empty Nuc back to where I purchased it from on Monday so I will try and find out some more information form them.

Yes that’s all the bees apart from the ones out foraging. There wasn’t any sitting on the box they all stayed on the frames.

Should I close up the vent at night to help keep them a bit warmer our nights drop to about 15-18deg C this time of year. Days range from 20-30deg C. The weather in my city is know for it variability.

I’ll read up on AFB.

Thanks for looking into this for me.

Thanks for the photos. I’m concerned also that there isn’t enough bee population. Each frame should ideally be teeming with bees (unless you shook them off).

You haven’t been given the strongest of nucs to begin your beekeeping career… :sweat:

Id almost go as far too say that placing them in a bigger box may be detrimental at this early stage…

1 Like

yes for sure close up the vents- the colony is small with few bees- they’ll need all the warmth they can get.

1 Like

I’m definitely going to be asking for some money back.

So what can I do in the mean time to help them along? Or do I have to wait and let them sort it out? I. Assuming it’s probably not a good idea to reopen the hive and further stress them out

How have you arrange the frames in the new box? Is it 8f or 10f? Instead of asking for money back, why not get some frames of brood from the supplier - 3 additional frames will boost the population substantially and give it a good fighting chance. Place the honey stores on the outside.

1 Like

I didn’t know you could mix and match. It’s an 8 frame box so I put in 3 empty frames with the nuc.

I will definitely see if the supplier can do this.

Just get past the guard bees and you’ll be fine… trick is to go in through the top :joy:

If the brood frames come with bees, the majority of bees on brood frames are nurse bees. They usually get readily accepted.

It’s the forages that usually fight. However, they will get accepted provided they come laden with nectar or pollen. Hence why robber bees get into fights.

Hives will accept any brood frame. Must be instinct kicking in to look after the brood.

1 Like

OK so I heard back from my friend- she says she can’t see any clear signs of AFB from the photos but that the number of bees is very very low and she thinks there is also chalk-brood. She thinks some of the brood will not make it as there are not enough bees to care for it.

a few things come to mind: I agree with fred that this colony would possibly be better off in a smaller nuc hive until they build up again. But now they are on the larger cleaner more ventilated hive I think they should stay there - at least just for now.

I would be concerned about giving them frames of brood now as I doubt they can even look after the brood they have. If the new brood came with nurse bees- and was capped brood just about to emerge then it might work. It’s not always easy to get matured capped brood complete with nurses though…

I have a question about this Nuc: how long have you had it Jason? By looking at the frames it is clear it was doing quite well at some stage and had a lot more bees. they have gathered quite a bit of honey. To me that suggests at some time there were a lot more bees and then something bad happened. the population is very low. It could be that the foragers were exposed to pesticide- many died- some of who ended up at the bottom of the Nuc. The remaining bees had no workforce to clean up and the damp and pests moved in. The question is- did all of this happen before you got the Nuc- or after. If it occurred afterwards then there is a possibility it was not really the fault of the supplier. It looks by the photos that the Nuc is on a rooftop? Have you had lots of rain and cold there the last month or two?

Another possibility is that this colony was the result of a split- and that it didn’t make the honey it has but was given it. If that’s the case it may have been a poorly made up split that never had enough bees to begin with.

If you cannot get brood frames- then it may be a good idea to leave them alone for a few days and then put them into a small Nuc- to give them a chance to build back up again and care for as much of the brood as they can. But I’d want to know why things got so damp in the original Nuc- and make sure that didn’t happen again.

2 Likes

Thanks for info

Glad to here it doesn’t look like AFB

I picked up the Nuc on Friday (30th) and transferred them into the flow hive on Saturday (31st) as the supplier said the weather on Saturday would be better for the transfer. I took all the pics on Saturday while doing the transfer. They have only been in my hands for 3 days but i am already attached to them.

I rang the supplier on Saturday and he said to bring the Nuc around on Monday (Today) so he can have a look at the muck and grubs. I will show him the pics as well. He seemed pretty concerned so hopefully he will be able to help get the hive going again.

Thanks so much for your help. I’ll keep you posted with the progress after I come back from the supplier.

1 Like

well- if you only got it a few days before- and it came with all that muck and so few bees… well- in that case I would be politely asking for a whole new nucleus colony… that colony has real issues and they shouldn’t have sold it to you like that at all. They should have looked in there before they sold it- and then NOT sold it. It’s going to take a few months at least to build back up- and you don’t want to start out like that at all. I have a feeling the chalkbrood issue may get worse before it gets better as some of that brood is likely already dead… The only other way to turn it around would be adding frames of well developed brood WITH plenty of nurses.

also- I don’t know if beetles are a big issue in Melbourne- but that hive would be at real risk of a total infestation and slime out in beetle country- with all that honey and so few bees to protect it.

1 Like

I took the Nuc back to the supplier to show him the muck and grubs and pics of the frames. He was shocked and very apologetic. He said he has never seen anything like it as the Nuc was still full of wigging grubs that are now about double the size of the above pic. He’s going to swap it for a fresh colony and he will take this colony to his house so he can keep an eye on it.

He’s pretty confident the grubs are wax moth and somehow water has gotten into the hive. It has been pretty we wet where he breeds them. He also seemed quite annoyed that one of his employees hadn’t noticed this when it was inspected.

Thanks for your help it made me feel like less of a noob when i went to talk to him.

3 Likes

Got the new Nuc last weekend. It has a lot more bees and seems to be going well. The supplier put the first colony into another one of his customers hives that lost a queen so they are now going well. Happy ending for all involved.

2 Likes

That colony was a bit low in numbers, however going by how much sealed & emerging brood there was, it looked good for the near future & was only going to improve. I think the other customer got a good colony because that queen looked to be a ripper.

The muck, grubs & dead bees was bad. The grubs look like fly maggots to me, not wax moth or hive beetle grubs. Shame on the supplier for selling a nuc in that condition.

I’m sure the replacement queen will also be a ripper.

3 Likes

The supplier was very apologetic and did everything he could to rectify the situation for both me and the bees. I have no I’ll feelings and would happily but another Nuc from him.

3 Likes