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Old School thinking and Flow

#1

Hi All,
I’m also a beginner here so please bee gentle!
I live in Brisbane, so does anyone know where the Honey Tap is manufactured, would like to visit to see its construction first hand?
Been talking to a the local bee clubs and there seems to be a reluctance to take the honey tap seriously, a lot of old school thinking, which was pointed out in the ABC news article URL below, but their main concern was for the wellbeing of the bees. The second URL article does highlight some of the concerns. My laymens terms thinking is, if the quality of the honey reduces then, surely the bees are not as content. Has the honey quality been tested against traditional methods over a long period?

That said, as a new person to the industry, this invention is fantastic, I just wish I thought of it! Look forward to any replies.
Regards
Snicket

#2

The ABC URL is here

Seems that I could only put one URL in the original article.
Thanks

#3

Hi Snicket, if you are keen to see the factory in motion, the Flow team have posted a series of photos on how it is made. See the link below. As for a personal tour, the guys are pretty busy filling their obligations to thousands of people, so I doubt it at the moment but there is no harm in asking. Make a request via the Flow Hive category on this site.
The plastic being used is a virgin high grade food plastic which has been used in the industry for decades, so I don’t see any issues. Many old school beekeepers have been using plastics in their hives and much of the commercial honey in supermarkets is either produced in plastic hives or stored in large plastic containers for shipping prior to bottling. I would be more concerned with what people are spraying in the environment as this will be brought back to the hive, embedded into the wax and may be present in the honey too. Hopefully, you’ll see where this is going.
Welcome to the group, lots of positive spirit and there are no dumb questions. Cheers.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.786089204822646.1073741830.691574840940750&type=3

#4

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#5

If there is a case to be made for a difference in quality then the Flow hive would have the advantage of not losing as much of the aromatics. When you sling the honey across the air to the outside of the extractor a lot of aromatics get lost. That’s why comb honey and even cappings honey have always been admired as the best tasting as they have not lost those.

Rather than pick on the Flow hive, they should just say they are against plastic because that seems to be their main point. If you don’t feel comfortable putting plastic in your hive, then you shouldn’t. But we live in this world that is full of plastic. Philosophically, I like wood better than plastic and natural comb better than foundation of any kind, but sometimes it pays to practical instead and use things for what they are good for.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesphilosophy.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbelief.htm

#6

That article fundamentally misunderstands the Flow frame from what I can see. And really he spends more of his time talking about how bad plastic foundation is and how it doesn’t allow natural cell size and drone comb etc, rather then making any sound arguments about the Flow. Since they are not meant to house brood or drones or anything but honey you are not taking away the bees ability to draw comb, unless you are using whole foundation, or their ability to draw whatever comb they want. Based on his own arguments about the Flow hive he should never pull out traditional frames of honey and extract them. I’m sure the bees don’t really want him doing that either. He is basically making an argument against beekeeping not against the Flow hive, which is a pretty serious claim/argument to make, and he does a pretty bad job of making it compelling. I mean seriously… comparing a flow frame to a factory farm chicken laying eggs? Wow… I’d hate to see what associations he draws for things that are actually serious… if this is his comparison for a “simple” redesign of a frame that extracts itself.

#7

The comparison to battery hens baffles me. The bees can (and often do) ignore anything they don’t like. They are free to leave anytime they want (and sometimes do). A battery hen is trapped in a cage where she can only stand up, sit down, eat, poop and lay eggs. I don’t see any commonality. You can’t make bees do anything you can only work with them.

#8

@adagna Adam if you look at any of these type of videos they have no substance - they cannot prove Flow wrong - there is no evidence - they just want to Look right, and Sound educated but in actual fact all they do is show ignorance, intolerance and bigotry. They want Flow to fail because they are not up on the technology and want to assume all newBees are just trying to muscle in on the “old boys network”.

NewBees are a threat to the way its always been done - they are to set in their ways to change and just want to criticise, just another ego trip.

We have an expression in Australia “Tall Poppy Syndrome” - anyone who pokes their head above the parapet or differers from the norm, chop them down before they can make the old ways change and the die-hards look stupid.

#9

Wow, good to see lots of passion here, I’ll discuss further with the old schoolers, they may have more input! Once I hear both side of the argument, will make an educated decision on cost, availability…
As I said before, the invention, looks fantastic and want me to get into bee keeping, more not less.

Thanks Rodderick for the link to the manufacturing side of things.

Thanks all
Snicket

#10

Hi Snicket, I’m a bit “old school”. As a frugal beekeeper, the best advice I feel that I could offer if you’re keen on keeping bees is to start off with full depth Langstroth hives. Keep an eye on how things go with the flow hive & at the same time learn as much as you can about bees. If you decide to go with flow frames down the track, you’ll have no trouble fitting the flow frames into a full depth super.

#11

You mean we may actually convert you yet Jeff??? My gosh!!!

#12

You never know Valli, the way I see it, it’s another way to harvest honey. The management of the bees will remain unchanged. This is the area where a lot of people will come unstuck. I heard Flow mentioned on the radio yesterday. Do you know of “Conversations With Richard Fidler” on ABC radio? Richard wasn’t on yesterday but a lady interviewed a veteran beekeeper, Bruce White. He was good, he just mentioned that the Flow invention has generated a lot of interest in beekeeping worldwide.

#13

Wise words Jeff, thank you for the advise, I too will probably be quite frugal initially.

#14

Hi & your most welcome, incidentally I’m not far from you, Buderim, cheers