I have a smallish swarm I caught about 5 weeks ago. I inspected it yesterday and saw the queen- but I also noticed that in some cells there were two or three eggs? They were all at the bottom of the cells- not on the walls so I am pretty sure it is not a laying worker. Could the queen be defective? Its quite possible she as a virgin queen as it was a small swarm: maybe not a primary swarm. Should I be concerned or might this clear up with time?
I’ve read posts of young Queens sometimes laying multiple eggs at once but it usually stops. Never had the experience though so can’t really offer any advice.
Occasionally young queens or abnormal queens will lay multiple eggs per cell, but not as many or as haphazard as seen in laying worker colonies. Laying workers may also lay eggs in pollen cells and on the side wall of cells.
I agree with Alan @SnowflakeHoney. She is probably just a very young, inexperienced queen. She will get the hang of it pretty soon, I would guess.
I have seen it in a hive with multiple queens but this is different to a swarm… I would put it down to a young queen too…
Update: after struggling along- suddenly this colony vanished. I suspect a full and sudden absconding as there were no bee bodies in the bottom of the hive… Just empty combs. Seems there was some issue for sure with the dodgy multiple egg laying queen.
= dodgy
I had this hive near other larger ones and I am wondering if it’s possible the workforce absconded to one of the other hives. I hope so!
@Dawn_SD Dawn, in the first year of a young queen, does she lay the same number of eggs that she would in the next season? As I have a new FH (mid November '20), the queen is a young one purchased as a queen cell in early spring '20, by the beekeeper whom I bought my nuc from. She doesn’t seem to be laying the sort of numbers that I’d thought should be, as we are having an amazing season in much of Australia, even through much of Summer, which in southern NSW Australia, is our dry season, even Australian native gum trees are now flowering for the second time, and my bees are going flat out. But not in the numbers that I thought they would be in such a great season.
I would say, that depends…
If she wasn’t well mated, she might lay OK to start with then taper off rapidly and become a drone-layer.
If the hive doesn’t have enough pollen, the nurse bees will not allow a big brood nest.
I am not really sure what you are expecting, nor what you are seeing. Photos might help.
@Dawn_SD Hi Dawn, sounds like it’s a no. My Queen was breed by a professional Queen Bee breeder, bought as a Queen cell, and then hatched in the nuc by the beekeeper whom I then bought that nuc from, so I’d doubt very much that she would not have mated properly. Also, you have basically said in reverse to what I was asking. Can’t do any photos, as I’m the only one at my bees, as my wife is somewhat allergic to being stung, so she won’t go near my hive. What I am concerned about, is that the number of workers hasn’t seemed to have grown as fast as they should have since getting them. I bought the nuc in mid November last year, and they are not showing any signs that they are getting even close to maximum population numbers, eg camping outside the brood box when most of the foraging bees have returned to the hive for the night. The person whom I bought the bees from, said to me that my Queen is of a very good sized, and looked very healthy, when she was recently sighted on the last inspection that he did. But for now I’m on my own, as he is out of action for now, because he has since had to have one of his knees replaced. Also I’ve read on the forum of others with new hives, that have also started up just as late in the honey season with a new FH as I did, and their bees have filled their new hives already. Yes there is plenty of blossom about, and my bees seem to be very busy foraging, and yes there is new brood, but no mention was actually made as to the actual amount of brood that there was, it was also pointed out though that there was a very good amount of honey that had been collected and stored in the frames, yet still there was 1 frame (foundation-less) that had still not been built out yet, infact the bees had only just started to do so. The beekeeper made the decision to replace that frame with a different frame that I had, that had a plastic foundation, but I didn’t have any bees wax before hand to be able to treat it with, he did bring me some so I treated other frames with that wax. Since the inspection with him, I have since done an inspection 3 weeks later, and in that period of time that untreated plastic foundation frame had no signed that the bees were even interested in it, so I took it out and put in a similar frame, but was a wax treated plastic frame, in it’s place
So as you can see, I’m at a point, that I don’t know why my hive seems to be on the slow side in getting to full capacity bees wise. Oh and finally, there is no sign of any kind of pest problem, infact from November right through to now I’ve only found about 10 drowned SHBs and early in having getting my bees there were several dead wax hive moth larvae in the bottom tray, but I now have DE in it, with nothing dead in it at all. So I have run out of ideas as to why my hive isn’t performing. Just one more point, I don’t think that my hive is a weak one, as I have already witnessed several robbing attempts on my hive from other bees, and oh boy did my bees stand their ground, even killing several of those robbing bees. Since then, when a lone robbing bee turns up, it’s not even game to try and get in via the entrance, but instead physically walks around on the join between the brood box and the roof (on the outside), to try and find a way in there, but no such luck.
Maybe I just need to be a bit more patient (sigh). Sorry for this being so long.
So it wasn’t a purchased mated queen from the professional beekeeper.
Is it common for queen breeders to supply queen cells?
@skeggley the Queen in my hive was purchased by the beekeeper whom I bought my nuc from. The Queen breeder sells either queen cells or mated Queens. Both those people are located in Wagga Wagga NSW, and I live 33kms south in the small town of The Rock. I meet the person that I bought my nuc from at the Wagga Wagga Amateur Beekeepers Club. The Queen had already hatched, mated, and had even started laying eggs in the brood/ nuc box by the time I came to picked the nuc up.
@Dawn_SD Hi Dawn, it sounds like there might have been a shortage of pollen, or that the foraging bees were bringing back mostly nectar to the hive (as the beekeeper whom I brought the nec from, said that there was an ample amount of honey in the brood box on his last visit, with either, resulting in the possible slow egg laying by my Queen. That shortage may have passed, as I am now seeing a good number of bees with pollen on their back legs. Next week will be the next inspection that I will do, and when I do that inspection, I’ll check on the amount of brood that there is. Last inspection, I added a 2nd brood box, but in it I placed 2 plastic feeder frame boxes with 50:50 sugar syrup in them, hoping that the bees will increase the number of cells for the queen to lay eggs in. With the 2 feeders, it meant that there are only 5 new plastic foundation frames in the second BB, and 1 new plastic foundation frame in the original FH2 BB. I put bees wax on all 6 frames, and even painted some sugar syrup onto those same frames hoping to attract the worker bees to them. I’ll see next week if my Queen and worker bees have accepted my challenge to them, they sure seem to be foraging in larger numbers since.
Thanks Buzz, only mated queen’s from breeders over here as far as I know.
The thing is, is that you can’t guarantee a well mated queen if you sell qx’s and apart from the difference in pricing, reputation is at stake and in the breeding world reputation sells.
A good queen poorly mated is no better than a backyard raised queen.
Here for example, Rottnest Island queen’s are bred and mated by drones, with known genetics, transported to the island specifically for breeding.
For a breeder be able to guarantee a mated queen they must be able to control the other 50% of the genetics.
@skeggley I’m only new at this beekeeping thing, and this breeding of Queens is even newer news to me. So I don’t know the finer details of doing so, all I know is that this particular Queen breeder is breeding placid Queens, and the one that was placed in the nuc that I purchased, is so placid, that even though she has only been in the nuc since sometime in September 2020 (now my hive), my hive is already amazingly quiet. So quiet that I am already only wearing the flow hat wth a vail on it, a zip up jacket, the flow-hive gloves, jeans, and slip on boots when doing any work on hive it’s self, and no protective gear at all when I’m doing just general things like checking the plastic flue tray. I can even sit in from of the hive only 2mtrs away from the entrance, and they just fly passed me, and not even giving me a second glance. When I built the shade hut for them, not even once did any of my bees attempt to sting me.
Considering that I hate aggressive bees, the Queen bee breeder she came from gets a big thumbs up:+1: from me, as the placid genetics in my Queen, are certainly already affecting the hive she is in.
Also I’m not aware of the % of Queen cells to Mated Queens he sells.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for locally mated queens. I’m just pointing out that it’s not just the queens genetics but also the drones genetics that dictate the offspring genetic behaviour.
Certainly makes beekeeping more enjoyable when they have a passive temperament, you’ll be inspecting in shorts and thongs in no time.
My backyard mutts (Apis Mellifera Buderimmutica) have a little bit of attitude, however they settle down with some smoke. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of attitude. That way I’m always suited up & protected in case some bees do get a bit hostile. I prefer them to sting my gloves rather than my hands.
@skeggley “You’ll be inspecting in shorts and thongs soon.”
Mate are you stark raving mad, I can’t find my bee gloves and I’m feeling undressed, and that was still with a pair of gardening gloves on. I might be madly engrossed with me bees, but I still haven’t lost my marbles just yet. I watched landline the other day about the bees on Kangaroo Island, and the bush fires that destroyed many hives. I saw one beekeeper pick up a hand full of bees, and thought to myself, mmm yep he’s gone bee crazy!!! I have very placid bees, but I’m not that confident with them yet, and I don’t think that I ever will be, time will tell. Gee I’ve only had them for 4 months, give me a break. If 3 or 4 years ago, someone back then had told me that I’d have bees, I would have called the folks with the white coats and self hugging jackets to come and take that person away.
Bees still have a sting in their tails, and I REALLY don’t like getting stung.
Also regarding the Queen’s genetics, you are right but I don’t know how many generations of Queens, that the beekeeper whom I bought my bees from has been using from the local Queen bee breeder’s Queens for, 2 maybe even 3 generations. So, much of those genetics could also be not only in the Queen that I have, but very likely also in the drones whom mated with my Queen, as her breeder is very highly regarded locally, even the local Amateur Beekeepers Club promotes his Queens to it’s members (some 60). Also I’d say that a very high % of the drones mating the Queen bees (where my Queen came from, and was mated there), would have similar genetics, favouring placid bee haviour traits in them too.