How does it work out it’s nectar rather than brood?
Ha ha, very clever @Dee. 
Well of course, it isn’t really nectar either, it is unripe honey - seeing as the flowers are not dripping onto the scale with no processing going on.
I suppose I should have said the hive is gaining 1kg of weight per day at the moment. Some of it will be bees. If the queen lays 2,000 eggs per day, and they all hatch into 0.1g bees, that could be as much as 200g of bees per day. However, workers will be dying off too, so my guess is that a large proportion of that weight gain is unripe honey. 
Thank you for keeping me honest!! 
1 Like
Yup. And it carries bees and equipment around - I bought one of those Weather-Tech mats for the trunk to protect it.
2 Likes
Dawn I wasn’t having a go
Just curious
Now you haven’t factored in the daily weight gain of larvae 
I’m actually jealous of the scales the hives sit on and the Tesla
3 Likes
The issue of cost only comes into play when a beekeeper is happy with just one hive. A second hive does become very expensive because you purchase a second set of extraction tools etc… I timed extracting one hive by hand once. The whole process took 90 minutes, that’s from start to finish. 20 kilos of honey from 8 frames.
Well good luck with pulling all those frames apart & scraping off that thixotropic honey, if it ever eventuates. I think what I do to get it out of traditional frames is much, much easier.
2 Likes
If they are shakey about pulling frames how are they going to remove the super and inspect the brood regularly?
2 Likes
@Dee, please take it for granted, you will never offend me personally. I have worked in academia for many years, and thick skins are required when discussing matters of science and logic. However, if you point something out to me, I will re-examine the way I discussed it. Surely that is healthy? I am not hurt, I am just taking a second look. I think that is how you (or really “I”) can improve at something.
But actually I did. I gave you the benefit of the advantage in assuming that eggs weigh nothing. Compared with an adult bee, that must be almost true. I haven’t seen any numbers, but looking at a bee egg, I would guess about 1 microgram - it can’t be much more than a microliter in volume, and a lot of that will be phospholipid, which is less dense than water. So 2,000 eggs probably weigh about 2 grams. Compared with 1kg of honey, that is just about negligible.
My next assumption is that if the queen is laying 2,000 eggs per day, then that number are developing to adulthood every day. That takes into account weight gain per day, unless my brain is fried. That will not be true with VSH bees either (as they throw out larvae that they don’t like), but still, approximately 200g of bees are added to the hive every day, taking into account all stages and time for pupating etc. The only thing missing, because I don’t have good data, is how many workers are lost per day. I have heard around 500, but it may be higher in bad conditions or aggressive colonies (
). That would be about 50g of weight lost from worker attrition.
So now you know my inner secrets on your thought-provoking questions.
8 Likes
RBK “If they are shakey about pulling frames how are they going to remove the super and inspect the brood regularly?” Good point - my experience with my own kids has been that, with supervision and encouragement, confidence grows and the shakiness subsides as confidence grows :
1 Like
A second complete Flow Hive would be an expensive option, which is exactly what our audience had assumed.
However, when we pointed out that Flow Frames could be purchased separately of course they are more expensive than wooden frames, but our audience were surprised that it wasn’t as an expensive option as they had first assumed. Indeed if one considers cost alone, adding Flow Frames to a standard box is probably the way to go for a second hive.
Splitting a Flow Frame to extract thixotropic honey is at first a daunting prospect, but is actually incredibly easy and takes seconds. Reassembly requires nimble fingers rather than luck, and after mastering the art after 2 or 3 frames, literally only takes a few minutes.
1 Like
My local association here in La. is a bit more open minded. They asked me two months ago to bring my flow hive and give a short presentation of its workings. They enjoyed the presentation this evening. Still not sold on the efficacy of a flow hive for large scale commercial production and all agreed that it is not without some issues that may be encountered in the future. However, I am not the only one testing this “new fangled thang.” LOL. Reminder: the colony will still have to be maintained and serviced. Flow hive does not replace maintenance just harvesting of honey.
2 Likes
I had planned to simply buy frames instead of complete hives- then Flow had a discounted sale on and I decided to buy two complete Hoop pine hives with 12 flow frames. Due to the sale the cost of the hives was only a few hundred dollars each- more than other hives that are available- but of a better quality. The hoop pine hives are really very very good quality… I was a ‘no brainer’ for me.
Hopefully Flow will continue to have periodic sales! Also hopefully- over time- the price of flow frames might come down a bit
If not- it’s not a worry- people are still free to go and buy complete hives off of ebay for $160 each and go traditional- or splurge and go flow. Options!
2 Likes
I harvested 12 kgs off of four flow frames last month- and it took around 5 hours- that’s because the honey was very thick, I extract in increments and only two frames at a time.
So it took me a lot longer than you- and for less frames… but… in total of those 5 hours I estimate I was only actively involved for a total of maybe 40 minutes. And by actively involved I mean inspecting the frames, placing the bucket, installing the hoses, and turning the key. I walked away after each incremental turn.
At the end there were no cappings to deal with, no frames to be returned to the hive and not one drop of honey that wasn’t in my bucket.
Finally I am a year one beekeeper- I also baught a spinner and spun out just 4 frames with my brother. It took us maybe 3 hours- we made a sticky mess in my kitchen, all 4 frames split, we couldn’t spin it all out- had to cut out the wax- and the rest of the honey had to be strained- and the resultant honey was not as clear as the unfiltered flow honey… but we did make a beautiful block of wax- and the honey had some fine wax in it which has a nice mouthfeel 
Put all that down to inexperience and a super cheap spinner…
With practice I know we’ll get better at spinning and I will be spinning 12 frames this month. I agree with you that it’s not too hard - but I do love my flow frames still. Difference horses for different courses and all that 
5 Likes
Well done Jack, you are correct in saying that it will get easier with more experience. I spun out some first time frames the other day & they turned out fantastic. Just like in my recent video. I AM using heavier foundation & I get my wires fairly tight, all that contributes, plus having the wire support for the comb also helps.
2 Likes
Cheers Jeff- I realize now that the frames we spun were all brand new drawn comb and therefore delicate, the baskets in my spinner were inadequate, and I spun too fast. Also should have flipped the frames to stop the weight of the honey on the rear side pushing through. Hopefully next time I’ll be able to return the stickies to the hive!
Another issue we had was clean uncapping- we made a quite a mess- watching your video where the wax just rolled off in perfect sheets spoke volumes about your methods and your comb management theories.
I’m hoping to get that Wow factor With my combs you like so much with yours.
One thing in favor of spinning frames- it’s a wonderful thing watching those those strings of golden honey flecking out at the sides of the drum. Wow!
Whether it’s flow frames or regular it always amazes me how much honey is packed into a single frame by the bees-
2 Likes
My bees have done so well over Winter that there’s little room for the Queen to lay, so I’ve now added a second brood box.
I went ‘cheap’, for reasons of next day delivery rather than cost, and interestingly whilst the quality is OK and it will do the job, it isn’t of the same quality as the flow hive boxes.
Yes I agree Jack, especially your closing comment. I have on the odd occasion showed people a 10 frame super & showed them a 30 kilo bucket of honey, then point to the 25 kilo mark. It is hard to believe that that much honey comes out of a box that size. I still look at it in amazement.
1 Like
You probably know this, but uncapping is much easier if you use more widely spaced frames in the honey super - 7 frames in an 8 frame box, or 9 in a 10 box. Of course a hot knife helps too! @JeffH uses steam I think, mine is electric but it works.
1 Like
I agree with that
I get my wax drawn on 11 frames then move them to castellated supers taking 10 or 9
3 Likes
Yeah- we only had an unheated knife- and some of the combs were a bit wonky- there were some divot patches that we had to use a fork on. I’m confident with practice things can only get better- and a heated knife will help a lot too.
1 Like
Billthebeekeeper, I got mine when they unexpectedly supplied Western Red Cedar, At first when assembling I didn’t like the brittleness of the wood as compared to pine which was very prevalent in my area. But after setting up the hives I couldn’t believe how easy they took to splits. I split a double stack 10 frame into 3 Flow Frame western red cedar 8’s. I think it had something to do with why your grandma kept her sweaters in cedar chests. Although it may be the three inches of crushed lime base I have my hives on but why mess with what works. You might say that is too much of an investment… I would rather invest now and enjoy my success in the years to come than too deal with the disappointment of rebuilding the hives every year or two. By the way I do not spend any money on sugars to feed or on any treatments. Given its only been two years with 8 frame Flows, two years of a single double stack deep 10 frame hive. During which time God blessed me with a double hernia that led to some very valuable lessons and might explain why I am very pleased with the 8 Frames. I feel very blessed that God arranged for Cedar and Stew to come out with the “Flow” systems during this time. Prior to that there was the year of startup of two double deep 10 frames that went into winter in very good condition but died out due to mites.
I had done all suggested treatments, fed sugar and both were set up with candy boards for winter. I was reluctant to continue due to cost and it being too much work for a 100% disabled veteran but the supplier of my NUCs that fist year felt sorry for me and supplied another NUC. I wasn’t about to admit defeat. Blessings, Mark
1 Like