Hi! I’m new at bee keeping and excited to learn all about it! I just ordered a Flow Hive 2+ and it arrived this week. I need to order my bees but I’m not sure which to pick. I’m a beginner and I’m only going to have the one Flow Hive with two brooder boxes. I’d like honey as this is a project to do with the family and I’d like the kids to see/eat the benefits…haha. So, Carniolan or Italian Bees? I’ve read on them but I’m not sure which will be most suitable to my set up. I’m open to adding a regular beehive set up if I need to split… but I’d love not to have to do that right away.
Hi Kayla & welcome to the forum. I like & use Italians over here Down Under. Only 15 hrs ago @Dawn_SD recommended Italians to a new beekeeper.
I think a good strategy would be for you to join a local bee group to find out what the locals are using, plus they might have a recommendation as to where to acquire bees from.
Please yourself, however some folks might suggest keeping quiet about the type of hive you have. Just mention “a Langstroth hive” for the time being, would be their suggestion.
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Thanks for replying! I have a friend who does Italian also and with your response… it sounds like that’s the bee I should go with.
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Hi & you’re welcome Kayla.
Starting out beekeeping can present lots of challenges, which can be dealt with along the way, given the right advice, which we’re able to & happy to help with. Sometimes the type of bee we start with will seem insignificant compared to the challenges we can (not always) face down the track.
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These are both great varieties and good all rounders with few issues. I’d be happy to say just to go with whichever is more readily available through your local beekeeping club. We have both at our head office.
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copy and past from bee2bee Several European honey bee sub-species have been buzzing about Australia since the 1800s.
Many environmental factors always influence the temperament and honey output of a beehive. But if you’re getting started, it’s useful to know a little about some intriguing variations in the European honey bee. Many sub-species of Apis Mellifera developed with the different climactic conditions of their homelands. According to AgriFutures, Australia is home to three European honey bee sub-species:
- Italian honey bees (Apis mellifera, ligustica)
- Caucasian honey bees (Apis mellifera, caucasia)
- Carniolan honey bees (Apis mellifera, carnica)
The truth is that most bee hives in Australia contain a hybridisation of these three variations. Feral bees have been present in Australia since the 1800s. So, as many beekeepers re-home feral hives, these hybrid bees are often the most accessible to the beginner or backyard beekeeper.
Even so, you may wish to source from a breeder a new, docile Queen (available from breeders from September to February only). Not only is the Queen the mother of all new bees born into a hive, but she is the master and commander of the beehive too. It’s her temperament and her command for resources and honey that her workers reflect. Italian Queens are popular in Australia due their docile nature, coupled with good honey production. AgriFutures notes that Italian bees are generally attractive for their large colonies and brood nest size.
Still, the Caucasians and Carniolans are apparently even more gentle. But these tend to have lower honey production. There is a trade-off: the more docile a beehive, the less honey it’s likely to produce (more on that topic here).
Of course, there are other factors to consider if you are stocking your beehive with one of these strains. Which is best suited to your local climate? Do they have a tendency to swarm? How disease resistant are they? You also need to consider your personal need for honey, propolis and beeswax and balance this with other traits.
Here’s a quick run-down of some pros and cons for each kind of honey bee stock used in Australia, according to Amazing Bees:
Italian bees:
PROS – These bees have a reputation for gentleness, being hard workers and very prolific breeders.
CONS – Colonies tend to maintain larger populations than other strains through winter. So, they need more winter stores (or feeding) than other sub-species.
Caucasian bees:
PROS – Regarded as “gentle and calm on the comb”, these bees raise strong colonies. They are also very good producers of propolis and strong honey producers.
CONS – The Caucasian honeybee has a lower resistance to fungal parasite Nosema Apis. Also, their colonies do not reach full strength until mid-summer. This is undesirable if the highest nectar flow in your area is in the spring. High production of propolis can also make hive management more difficult. Frames and hive boxes are sometimes glued together. They may also drift and begin robbing weaker colonies. (Though other sources state that Italians are prone to robbing also).
Carniolan bees:
PROS – These bees are desirable for keeping a moderate strength colony. They shrink to small populations over winter and build again very quickly in spring. Also considered to be gentle, they are good in highly populated areas. They quickly adapt to changes in the environment. Their sense of orientation better than the Italian honeybee. Able to overwinter in smaller numbers, their honey stores are better conserved. Their low use of propolis also makes hive management easier. They are also resistant to brood diseases.
CONS – These bees are more prone to swarming if overcrowded and they have a low ability to thrive in hot summer weather. Also, the strength of the broodnest is more dependent on availability of pollen.
Another point to ponder.
A feral, hybridised swarm in your area may already be perfectly adapted to your location. Swarms and feral hives can often be re-homed in your own backyard beehive. This helps curb feral bees from out-competing natives or taking up much needed bird nesting spaces. There are a few things to be aware of, such the possibility of disease and aggression. Thus, always get a qualified beekeeper to capture and re-home a local swarm or hive into a backyard beehive for you. They can also provide you with knowledge, support and advice.
Here at Bee2Bee Ian often re-homes swarms and feral hives into our NZ pine beehives. He has plenty of experience handling feral bees. If you have a swarm or hive at home and would like to be set up with your own backyard beehive, have a look at our range online and be sure to get in touch! but foe yoyur nature i would as your mentor or bee group what the best bee would be it basicaly comes down to to temprament and highgean but if your arfter honer than you can use the copy and past but aply it to your nations bees
I pondered on this choice when i initially started with my two hives and to be honest i think having both variations at hand allows for numerous hive characteristic diversities that you would miss going pure italian or Carniolan.
A true comparison is difficult in my case because I ordered a full Langsroth Hive to accompany my Flow hive. While the Italians had a week ahead before they were installed on my property because they were established by my mentor
One of the largest difference so far that ive seen is the temprement between the two. Right now its my Carniolans that are docile and more calm in contrast to my Italians being less Tolerant during inspections. During the last inspection my mentor admitted just how strong and how hard working the Italians have been. We even utilised two Italian brood frames to bolster the Carniolan numbers because it was this that they had not quite managed to establish quite as well. More hive numbers obviously translates to the queen having a greater hive capacity to nurture her eggs.
Another differece I have noticed that the Italians do harvest less in the colder mornings while the Carniolans still have a few bees heading in and out of the hive. While on hotter days the the carniolans do seem busier with efforts at tempreture regulation. (The tempreture properties of each hive would be varied because of thier colouring and construction).
This is my experience and through this uve found there is no hard and set characteristics that truly hit the mark in specie definition, especially when you source genuine hive chatacteristics by what you read online, and then notice the bees for who they truly are.
I walked in to the interest thinking my italians would be the calmer and more tolerant specie, I also thought they would be prone to pests because of this. Through my current experience im more concerned about my Carniolans because their tolerance level is so high that it takes a great deal to provoke a response from them.
So theres good and not so much to everything depending on what perspective you favor and lean towards.
good thow i would wate to enspect hives when the foraqges are out forageing usely ely morning tothrugh to arfternoon pending on the wather condisions i wouldnt inspect dureing a cold day as the cold will annoy the bees i my self bees since october 2020 apart from that happy beekeeping and may you have a wonderfull 2024 harvest