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2nd generation flow hive - Fake Flow Frames


#11

I’m sorry, but I can’t help thinking you work for the company selling the “second generation hives”.

Feel free to test the Chinese / fake product and send us your results.
In the meantime, the Flow Forum is for beekeeping knowledge and advice, and for information on the Flow Frames themselves - the authentic product that took over 10 years to develop and then manufacture.
You can do a search in the top right hand corner of the screen for more topics where fakes are discussed.


#12

no they are not as good. I have have seen some- they have many flaws.The ones I saw did not even fit in a standard langstroth correctly (too tall), didn’t have any way for the bees to access the drainage channel to empty it after a harvest, and use much thicker plastic for the cell structures which would result in considerably less space for honey. Beyond that they are illegal counterfeit products.


#13

@Faroe @saadi @Cedar currently there are a lot of the fake frames and hives available on ebay Australia- I have been reporting listings but there are a lot of them. Has the flow team signed up with ebay’s VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) program? Does your team pro-actively keep an eye on ebay? It’s a game of whack a mole but you need to keep whacking the moles… There is so much counterfeit Flow gear on ebay- I think Flow should contact eBay directly and threaten litigation- they are facilitating the counterfeiters to the tune of 100’s of thousands of dollars… and of course- they pocket over 10% of those sales- and pay virtually no tax on them whatsoever in Australia.

https://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

this first ebay add proudly states that they have 30 fake flow hives arriving in Sydney on October the 5th… That’s a retail value of $18,000. It represents lost Flow sales of around $28,000. And that’s just one seller! Flow has the right to sue them for lost sales, expenses and costs and damages. That seller has already sold at least 5 fake hives. These fakes will damage the Flow brand and cause confusion in the marketplace. Their use of the Flow term is a clear trademark infringement as well as the clear Patent infringement. Beyond the IP law- they are in direct contravention of s52 of the Trade Practices Act:

“52. (1) A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that
is misleading or deceptive.”

Companies have a lot of success litigating breaches of s52.

here is what these shameless liars say on their ebay blurb, “We are an honest store that has a special interest in beekeeping supplies. We are constantly researching products that we can bring to you at a good price. We also carry non beekeeping products. Thanks for taking a look. We appreciate you.”

the only products they stock are counterfeit flow beehives…

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Beekeeping-Supplies-Complete-Flow-Hive-7-pc-Frames-Box-Auto-Honey-Harvesting-/122664844190?hash=item1c8f64fb9e:g:suoAAOSwxbpZndZY

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wooden-Beehive-Brood-House-Box-Tube-7pcs-Auto-Flow-Honey-Hive-Frames-Beekeeping-/263147488354?hash=item3d44d00462:g:IbAAAOSwC~tZkvaa

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7Pcs-Automatic-Flow-Honey-Beehive-7-Frames-Kit-Honey-Raw-Bee-Hive-Harvesting-/263164883220?hash=item3d45d97114:g:YI4AAOSwa3ZZns6v

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Beekeeping-Hive-Auto-Flow-Honey-Super-Frames-Beehive-7-pcs-Bee-House-Harvest-/122672712894?hash=item1c8fdd0cbe:g:y58AAOSw9ENZpHC6

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7PCS-2-generation-Auto-Flow-Honey-Hive-Bee-Beekeeping-Hives-Frames-Harvesting-/142452088351?epid=22002461377&hash=item212ace5e1f:g:eaoAAOSw5vBZcVb1

@Forum_Support


#14

Hi Jack,

Thanks for letting us know about those fakes being sold online. It’s true about the loss for Flow…
I have been in touch with our legal department about Vero.
They have let me know that Flow have been using Vero and have been doing so for a while. Flow understand the severity of the situation and our legal team are currently in communication with eBay regarding this.

Legal have their finger on the pulse across the worldwide counterfeit industry of Flow and are working towards managing this.

The fakes are of much less quality and with the nature of such businesses, they do not take customer satisfaction with their best intentions. Therefore shortcomings in design and functionality are common, the plastic and timber are of poor quality (not suitable for the bees or human consumption), amongst many others.

We really appreciate you and our other Flow supporters looking out for us and appreciate any links to new information, especially new independent sites and manufacturers.
:slight_smile:
:honeybee:


#15

How so? We have bought a second set around December 2016and I have seen no difference (or may those were still the founding frames?)


#16

The current Fframes still seem to be the MkII frames. Founding frames are easily identified by the cap handle webbing, which is not cut out opposed to the current solid webbing as identified in the above thread. I have bought a recent set of Fframes and they seem to be the MkII.


#17

Faroe,
I just saw this:


You may want to alert legal to it.
And it looks like Vevo isn’t doing their job:
image
Unfortunately, this is the world you live in. We are very happy with our genuine flow frames, BTW.


#18

OMG - I can’t believe Walmart is selling fake Flow Frames :hushed:


#19

I’m not surprise. Walmart isn’t directly selling them. They are available through a third party seller, in the same way Ebay isn’t directly selling the fake frames, but allowing them to be sold. I doubt Walmart is even aware. Here’s a better screenshot:


One thing to note is that the fake frames didn’t turn up when I searched for “Flow Frames”. I found them because I was looking for equipment and entered the term “Beehive” in the search box. The first listing is listed as “no longer available”, but on page 2 or 3 I found the item above.


#20

im curiose, did anyone test one of these?


#21

These are fakes.
Why is anyone going to test them?

Fake Flow Frames have been discussed quite a bit on this forum.
You can do a search in the top right of the forum:
https://forum.honeyflow.com/search?q=fake]

This is a forum for beekeeping info and Flow product support - genuine Flow products.


#22

I see that Faroe, a Flowhive Team member, has answered your question adequately. But, I have a little different perspective on the matter.
These Chinese rip-offs are violating the Flowhive copyright. There are probably several different Chinese companies making these rip-offs and probably to different tolerances and quality levels. How are you going to figure out if you are ordering one that comes from a specific manufacturer that may be of the higher quality? The answer is you can’t, because a company that is violating the copyright is unscrupulous. Even if the fit and finish match, how do you know they aren’t using a toxic plastic. They may say they are using food grade plastic. But, we’ve already established that the businesses making these fake frames are unscrupulous. So, you can’t take them at their word.
Save yourself the money and headache and steer clear of the fakes. Either buy the original or stick with the traditional extraction method.


#23

I agree with that- and I had a friend who accidentally purchased some fake frames not knowing the difference. The frames were too big for a standard langrstoth and had to have parts removed so they could fit. After six months in the hives the bees had not deposited a single drop of honey in them- this was a very strong hive as well- the res of it was full of honey- he took them out and threw them in the bin. He replaced with traditional frames and the bees filled them in 4 weeks…


#24

Well, I’m sorry your friend fell for a fake. But, it sounds like he figured it out. He’s one of the smarter ones out there. I guess once again we see that you get what you pay for…
I just hope the Flowhive Team has enough resources to combat these fakes. Unfortunately, there are people out there that will buy fake frames and blame the Flowhive Team because they don’t work, just like the person who posted above doesn’t understand the difference.
I just hope the good people at Flowhive set their price high enough to stay in business. They have a great system.


#25

The genuine flow frames don’t fit into a standard Langstroth either.


#26

Not sure what you mean Jeff? Yes the super has to be modified but they do fit with minor alterations. The Chinese ones I’m talking about were too long- and too tall. Resting on the rebates the frames were a few mm taller than the box. My friend had to remove a few segments to allow them to fit lengthwise. As he had a migratory lid the excess height didn’t matter but he couldn’t rotate it into place anymore.

Also they lacked the little hole that enables the bees to eat the honey left in the trough- and the plastic that makes up the cells was quite a bit thicker that the real deal- meaning the cells were all substantially smaller. And like I said- after months the bees had not touched the frames at all- despite the fact the hive was booming. He rang me to complain I went over and broke the news to him. He tried for a few more months before giving up.

It’s a shame as my friend had no idea there were genuine frames or what he was buying. He just saw my flow hives and wanted to try out flow frames and bought these ones off eBay. He should have asked me first… Now he is sticking with traditional frames as he did before.


#27

Hi Jack, exactly what I said. I just replied to what you said about fake flow frames “too big for a standard langstroth”. I found the same thing with the real flow frames “too big for my standard langstroth”. I agree that I could have made it fit after a few adjustments. That would have meant cutting into a perfectly good standard langstroth super.


#28

I do believe, I am a victim of succumbing to a false claim for a Flow Hive.
Things to look out for, on a false Flow Hive, with mine there were no FRAMES included brood box was empty. the bottom board was simply a board, no mesh or method to clear refuse from hive with a sliding board. The timber used to manufacture the hive was very brittle and when I purchased frames to insert, the fitting was very sloppy indeed. Instruction for assembly were very poor. No follow up advice or service whatever.
So whilst the price of the hive may have been reasonable, I regret not spending the extra, for the Genuine Flow hive, which IMHO is better constructed, better quality, better timber, fully complete hive and far better instructions AND follow up assistance.
If my first foray into beekeeping proves to be successful, rest assured my next hive will most definatly be a Genuine Flow Hive made in Australia.
B.T.W. I’m not connected with the company in any way or form, and do not receive any numeration whatever or special treatment from said company.


#29

Sorry to hear that.

Yes, there are many reasons to buy original, one being an international warranty and ongoing customer support :slight_smile:
I recommend you email the buyer, or where you bought the fakes (e.g. ebay) to report them and see if you can get your money back.
Good luck :honeybee:


#30

An update: