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2nd generation flow hive - Fake Flow Frames


#1

What is a 2nd generation flow hive? I saw one listed. What is the difference in it and the regular flow hive listing?


#2

it’s probably a fake/counterfeit flow hive- where did you see it listed? if it was genuine it would be mentioned on the Flow website or here on the flow forum.


#3

Don’t remember where i saw it. I was brousing the web and saw mention of 2nd gen but it did not elaborate on the differences. I just thought that someone on this forum would know.


#4

Hiya Pecan, the current flow frames are definitely different to the founding frames, I can only assume changed for the better although Flow has made no official statements confirming this. Seeds have been planted but no confirmation. Having said this I have both and have had no discernible difference harvest wise between the two.
Whether or not this is the considered ‘Mk 11’ I don’t know. As Semiphore has stated there are copies flowing now and these may also be considered as Mk11 flow, however Flow is a company with high standards and integrity with more to lose than cheap Chinese copies, so beware of cheap untested Chimese plastic frame copies.


#5

Thanks for the reply. I did’nt know if the 2nd gen was a true flow product or a chinese copy. I have read that flow has made changes for the better. I did’nt know how to distinguish between the two when purchasing. I would want to get the latest with improvements.


#6

The only way to guarantee that you are buying a genuine Flow product is to purchase directly from Flow, either from their web site, or from their listing on Amazon. When you do that, you will get the latest version of the woodware and Flow frames, as Flow is very good about making sure you get the latest improvements.

Looking at their online store, there is no mention of 2nd Generation, so I would imagine that the one you saw is an illegal ripoff. Here is the genuine description:
https://www.honeyflow.com/shop/flow-hive/p/129

We can also ask @Faroe from Honeyflow Customer Support, whether she has any information on about a supposed Second Generation product being genuinely a Flow hive. She keeps her finger on the pulse of the company, and I am sure she would tell us if there were new improvements. :blush:


#7

This one is definitely a fake:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7PCS-2-generation-Auto-Flow-Honey-Hive-Bee-Beekeeping-Hives-Frames-Harvesting/371947498132?epid=22002461377&hash=item5699cc6a94%3Ag%3AbhMAAOSwjk9ZXeky


#8

As Dawn has said. It is a fake.
We don’t have any “second generation” products.
When we release a new product, or “new generation” - people who are subscribed to our newsletter will be informed.
https://www.honeyflow.com/forms/subscribe-to-mailling-list/p/139#a2

The products will also be listed on our 3 websites:

https://www.honeyflow.com/


#10

Maybe we need to see reviews and tests on both. I am not in favor of the chinese product - but is their product as good.


#11

I’m sorry, but I can’t help thinking you work for the company selling the “second generation hives”.

Feel free to test the Chinese / fake product and send us your results.
In the meantime, the Flow Forum is for beekeeping knowledge and advice, and for information on the Flow Frames themselves - the authentic product that took over 10 years to develop and then manufacture.
You can do a search in the top right hand corner of the screen for more topics where fakes are discussed.


#12

no they are not as good. I have have seen some- they have many flaws.The ones I saw did not even fit in a standard langstroth correctly (too tall), didn’t have any way for the bees to access the drainage channel to empty it after a harvest, and use much thicker plastic for the cell structures which would result in considerably less space for honey. Beyond that they are illegal counterfeit products.


#13

@Faroe @saadi @Cedar currently there are a lot of the fake frames and hives available on ebay Australia- I have been reporting listings but there are a lot of them. Has the flow team signed up with ebay’s VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) program? Does your team pro-actively keep an eye on ebay? It’s a game of whack a mole but you need to keep whacking the moles… There is so much counterfeit Flow gear on ebay- I think Flow should contact eBay directly and threaten litigation- they are facilitating the counterfeiters to the tune of 100’s of thousands of dollars… and of course- they pocket over 10% of those sales- and pay virtually no tax on them whatsoever in Australia.

https://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

this first ebay add proudly states that they have 30 fake flow hives arriving in Sydney on October the 5th… That’s a retail value of $18,000. It represents lost Flow sales of around $28,000. And that’s just one seller! Flow has the right to sue them for lost sales, expenses and costs and damages. That seller has already sold at least 5 fake hives. These fakes will damage the Flow brand and cause confusion in the marketplace. Their use of the Flow term is a clear trademark infringement as well as the clear Patent infringement. Beyond the IP law- they are in direct contravention of s52 of the Trade Practices Act:

“52. (1) A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that
is misleading or deceptive.”

Companies have a lot of success litigating breaches of s52.

here is what these shameless liars say on their ebay blurb, “We are an honest store that has a special interest in beekeeping supplies. We are constantly researching products that we can bring to you at a good price. We also carry non beekeeping products. Thanks for taking a look. We appreciate you.”

the only products they stock are counterfeit flow beehives…

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Beekeeping-Supplies-Complete-Flow-Hive-7-pc-Frames-Box-Auto-Honey-Harvesting-/122664844190?hash=item1c8f64fb9e:g:suoAAOSwxbpZndZY

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wooden-Beehive-Brood-House-Box-Tube-7pcs-Auto-Flow-Honey-Hive-Frames-Beekeeping-/263147488354?hash=item3d44d00462:g:IbAAAOSwC~tZkvaa

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7Pcs-Automatic-Flow-Honey-Beehive-7-Frames-Kit-Honey-Raw-Bee-Hive-Harvesting-/263164883220?hash=item3d45d97114:g:YI4AAOSwa3ZZns6v

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Beekeeping-Hive-Auto-Flow-Honey-Super-Frames-Beehive-7-pcs-Bee-House-Harvest-/122672712894?hash=item1c8fdd0cbe:g:y58AAOSw9ENZpHC6

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7PCS-2-generation-Auto-Flow-Honey-Hive-Bee-Beekeeping-Hives-Frames-Harvesting-/142452088351?epid=22002461377&hash=item212ace5e1f:g:eaoAAOSw5vBZcVb1

@Forum_Support


#14

Hi Jack,

Thanks for letting us know about those fakes being sold online. It’s true about the loss for Flow…
I have been in touch with our legal department about Vero.
They have let me know that Flow have been using Vero and have been doing so for a while. Flow understand the severity of the situation and our legal team are currently in communication with eBay regarding this.

Legal have their finger on the pulse across the worldwide counterfeit industry of Flow and are working towards managing this.

The fakes are of much less quality and with the nature of such businesses, they do not take customer satisfaction with their best intentions. Therefore shortcomings in design and functionality are common, the plastic and timber are of poor quality (not suitable for the bees or human consumption), amongst many others.

We really appreciate you and our other Flow supporters looking out for us and appreciate any links to new information, especially new independent sites and manufacturers.
:slight_smile:
:honeybee:


#15

How so? We have bought a second set around December 2016and I have seen no difference (or may those were still the founding frames?)


#16

The current Fframes still seem to be the MkII frames. Founding frames are easily identified by the cap handle webbing, which is not cut out opposed to the current solid webbing as identified in the above thread. I have bought a recent set of Fframes and they seem to be the MkII.


#17

Faroe,
I just saw this:


You may want to alert legal to it.
And it looks like Vevo isn’t doing their job:
image
Unfortunately, this is the world you live in. We are very happy with our genuine flow frames, BTW.


#18

OMG - I can’t believe Walmart is selling fake Flow Frames :hushed:


#19

I’m not surprise. Walmart isn’t directly selling them. They are available through a third party seller, in the same way Ebay isn’t directly selling the fake frames, but allowing them to be sold. I doubt Walmart is even aware. Here’s a better screenshot:


One thing to note is that the fake frames didn’t turn up when I searched for “Flow Frames”. I found them because I was looking for equipment and entered the term “Beehive” in the search box. The first listing is listed as “no longer available”, but on page 2 or 3 I found the item above.


#20

im curiose, did anyone test one of these?


#21

These are fakes.
Why is anyone going to test them?

Fake Flow Frames have been discussed quite a bit on this forum.
You can do a search in the top right of the forum:
https://forum.honeyflow.com/search?q=fake]

This is a forum for beekeeping info and Flow product support - genuine Flow products.